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  #1  
Old 03-09-2007, 10:26 PM
DawgAndy DawgAndy is offline
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Default first inning problems

Lately I've been giving up too many balls on my first inning after my opponets break. They don't go 8 and out (not often anyway ) but I'm really handicapping myself by starting 3-4 balls in the hole. Do you approach the "return" shot after the break with the same mindset as later in the game? Am I forcing something offensive that isn't there and leaving my opponet an easy bank to start? Should I just play defense at my first inning?
I know you can't see me play but some advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Andy
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2007, 10:36 PM
Shag_Fu Shag_Fu is offline
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I play with a guy who is head and shoulders above me in banking skills. So basically I cannot leave him anything that even remotely looks like a bank, on this planet or anywhere else. Kick banks, bank into combos, combo banks, even 2 railers(3railers hardly ever come up, but he still gets too close for comfort). If you are leaving them that initial cross corner(almost a gimme to most onepocket players) then you need to create traffic into his banking lanes as well as hide the cue ball. One skill that you might need to work on is skimming the balls that end up on the rail after a break. If you can do it properly, you can usually come off 2 rails into the back of the stack leaving you opponent with maybe a chance at bunting a ball up table. Sometimes creating a small cluster of 2-4 balls on the bottom rail can really hinder a persons chances for some early offense.
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2007, 11:39 PM
vapros vapros is offline
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Your mindset, at any time of the game, should be determined by the score and the situation on the table. It's nice to be able to do something constructive and also defensive, but not always possible. The break is a great advantage, and the first shot by the other player is often pure self defense, but most breaks can be answered without giving up the three or four balls you mention. I suspect you may be trying to go on the offensive much too soon. Often, two or three careful shots can get you back to an even bet in the game. The advantage of the break doesn't automatically put you in trouble. Learn to bunt and to feather a ball softly in order to go around it and leave your opponent without a shot he likes. Take a scratch if you have to; anything to place the cue ball where you want it. Practice going to the head rail and back to the other player's corner. It isn't very hard to do. Whatever you are doing, change it right now.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:33 PM
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Thanks guys, I'm learning along with Dawg on this.

Pel
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:22 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgAndy
Lately I've been giving up too many balls on my first inning after my opponets break. They don't go 8 and out (not often anyway ) but I'm really handicapping myself by starting 3-4 balls in the hole. Do you approach the "return" shot after the break with the same mindset as later in the game? Am I forcing something offensive that isn't there and leaving my opponet an easy bank to start? Should I just play defense at my first inning?
I know you can't see me play but some advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Andy
Against a good break, you are likely to be playing pure survival defense at first. Obviously if you can do something productive at the same time, that is nice, but your first priority has to be stall their offense.

I think my most common return after the break is a slow skim or carom off one of the balls, trying to end up behind the ball nearest their hole -- that's my ideal. It's a passive shot, but really limits their options. If you can get behind their balls, you not only cut off their shots to their hole, but you also limit their ability to do more damage, and you make it tougher for them to put you in deeper trouble (like locking you up on the stack). Try to cut off their easy routes to the back of the stack.

Eventually, you will have to get a threat going on your own side of the table in order to really get out of the break, but the first thing is to stop the bleeding -- you don't want to just lose the game in that first series right after the break. Make them work for it!!

I played one guy regularly who just loved those drawn out up table games, and he would always look for a chance to instigate one of those games by playing safe to the center of the foot rail (assuming there was nothing 'free' available from there). From that low angle it can be harder to roll behind the stack, so by doing that, he was inviting me to knock balls up table.
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2007, 10:09 AM
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Default Who Me?

Quote:
Steve said: " I played one guy regularly who just loved those drawn out up table games "
When did we play?

Later, Pel
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  #7  
Old 03-24-2007, 11:58 AM
BigSnook BigSnook is offline
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This is really good advice given by vapros and Steve. I just want to add a couple things that bear mentioning.

Vapros mentions practicing going to the end rail and back to your opponent's pocket. It's good to try this with a ball in all sorts of positions: in the pocket, a ball's distance out of the pocket, and with other balls providing obstruction or assistance for the shot. Always have a specific goal for the shot, and consider what speed you need to use to achieve that goal. Practice speeds you'll use to pocket a hanging or close ball, remove a ball, or take a foul.

Also, when playing to survive in the first inning against a good break, sometimes you'll end up leaving your opponent a move in which you'll end up in a worse spot than before, i.e. frozen to the side of the stack or behind another ball or cluster on your side. Practice kicking two and three rails to make a legal hit or take a foul, like these two situations:

START(
%AP2V6%BM3R4%CJ5O4%DM0N2%EM7P1%FI9R5%GK6N8%HN3N8%IK9Q3%JK6M5
%KG4S3%LJ5N2%MK3T7%NF5Z0%OI4M1%PL7L6%WI5D5%XL6L4%YC7U7%ZH9C8
%[D6X7%\C2V7
)END

START(
%AQ2R9%BL7T0%CI7O6%DK6M6%EQ9O8%FK5P7%GK6N8%HM7N8%IM6O9%JE1J7
%KF8S2%LI9M7%MH4U7%ND3W1%OC6I8%PC7H3%W]6C8%XC7H1%Yr1H9%Z^4C8
%[J4[2%\r4J3%]D2X5%^I3[1%eB8a1
)END

In the first shot, you do run the risk of ending up in a bad spot by leaving your opponent some options. You would need to exercise good speed control to leave your opponent frozen or very near to the ball closest to his pocket.

In the second shot, you are in a very good spot as soon as you get behind those balls. Having great speed control isn't as important, although you want to make sure you don't over- or under-hit it.

I hope this has been a helpful supplement to the info already supplied.
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  #8  
Old 03-24-2007, 03:50 PM
blackeee blackeee is offline
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Default BigSnook: can't see shots you posted. What to do?

How do I look at those 2 shots you mentioned Snook?
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2007, 11:21 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackeee
How do I look at those 2 shots you mentioned Snook?
Scroll to the upper right hand portion of your screen. Under "Message Board" click on "Need to Show a Shot?". That'll bring up the Wei table and instructions how to download and use it. ~Doc
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2007, 11:44 AM
senor senor is offline
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Default Another view

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgAndy
Lately I've been giving up too many balls on my first inning after my opponets break. They don't go 8 and out (not often anyway ) but I'm really handicapping myself by starting 3-4 balls in the hole. Do you approach the "return" shot after the break with the same mindset as later in the game? Am I forcing something offensive that isn't there and leaving my opponet an easy bank to start? Should I just play defense at my first inning?
I know you can't see me play but some advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Andy
There is absolutely nothing wrong or incorrect with what vapros and Steve have already explained. Someone else mentioned that the score should always be considered. More often than not, the score after the break is 0-0...But it doesn't feel like that, does it? If your opponent lays a good break down on you, you are behind in the game and should look for ways to turn the trap around on him. The 3 most common aggressive shots after the break (sorry, I've never tried to use the table) are when 1. you bank a ball that leaked out above the stack and you snuggle the cue ball in the stack, 2. you bank that ball that leaked out above the stack (either into the stack or towards the pocket) and send the cue ball 3 rails to play position/ defense, and 3. bank the ball that leaked out above the stack into the stack and send the cueball downtown, leaving your opponent long or doubled-up.

There are other good, aggressive shots that come up after the break that don't involve that ball above the stack, but I don't think they are as common. And the concept is all kind of the same.
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