ball on break rerack question

sneakynito · Apr 10, 2019

Sorry i know this has been asked before but i can't find it.

If you're playing rerack if you make a ball on the break what happens if you scratch, too?

wgcp · Apr 10, 2019

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Rerack.

B

Dennis "Whitey" Young · Apr 10, 2019

It has discussed in length a few times, but you'll find on these rules questions there is no conclusion. If a poll was taken then we would have a result. But there again OnePocket.org does not play by this rule, so it has little importance!

It could become of importance if OnePocket.org was to compile a host of alternative rules that the game could be played by. I think this is important for why should OnePocket.org be late to the party, instead of leading the way in the category of alternative rules. We do have some existing alternative rules written in the Official OP Rules, but I am referring to a complete separate listing.

DCC plays by this rule of if you score on the break it is a re-rack, but if you go under their DCC alternative OP Rules there is no mention of this scenario.

Therefore by Official OP rules, when the cue ball pocket scratches the opponent receives BIH. The scored ball is spotted and the player is assessed a foul. This IMO is the best way to play out this scenario if you want to stay on track with traditional OP. Whitey

darmoose · Apr 10, 2019

sneakynito said:
Sorry i know this has been asked before but i can't find it.

If you're playing rerack if you make a ball on the break what happens if you scratch, too?

It has been discussed several times, and you can find numerous answers.

This, I think is the most prevalent and in my opinion correct answer.

Breaker scratches while making a ball on the break (playing rerack). Ball pocketed is spotted, breaker is -1, and opponent shoots with BIH behind the line.

Same as if the identical scenario happens when you are not playing rerack. You cannot be forgiven for scratching just because you make a ball (on any shot), very simple.:sorry

Scrzbill · Apr 10, 2019

Worst rule ever implemented by OPOrg tournament players
This rule is for professionals not amateurs

darmoose · Apr 10, 2019

Scrzbill said:
Worst rule ever implemented by OPOrg tournament players
This rule is for professionals not amateurs

Just what is it that makes this rule applicable for professionals and not amateurs?

lll · Apr 10, 2019

darmoose said:
It has been discussed several times, and you can find numerous answers.

This, I think is the most prevalent and in my opinion correct answer.

Breaker scratches while making a ball on the break (playing rerack). Ball pocketed is spotted, breaker is -1, and opponent shoots with BIH behind the line.

Same as if the identical scenario happens when you are not playing rerack. You cannot be forgiven for scratching just because you make a ball (on any shot), very simple.:sorry

Darrell
WE AGREE AGAIN

darmoose · Apr 10, 2019

lll said:
Darrell
WE AGREE AGAIN

Stop it! People are talking.:lol:lol

sneakynito · Apr 11, 2019

Guess there's no right or wrong, but i'm with Col Bille on this one.
I vote rerack if you make a ball and scratch.

Also, I've never seen it explicitly said that it has to be YOUR pocket a ball goes in for a rerack.
If I break real bad and make a ball in my opponents pocket, can I rerack?
I'm gonna try next time just for curiosity's sake.

lll · Apr 11, 2019

sneakynito said:
Guess there's no right or wrong, but i'm with Col Bille on this one.
I vote rerack if you make a ball and scratch.

Also, I've never seen it explicitly said that it has to be YOUR pocket a ball goes in for a rerack.
If I break real bad and make a ball in my opponents pocket, can I rerack?
I'm gonna try next time just for curiosity's sake.

although we once beat this to death
sneaky i am curious as to why you believe you should be rewarded for scratching??
the rerack was so if someone got "lucky" and made a ball on the break the opponent wouldnt suffer because of being "unlucky"

sneakynito · Apr 11, 2019

lll said:
although we once beat this to death
sneaky i am curious as to why you believe you should be rewarded for scratching??
the rerack was so if someone got "lucky" and made a ball on the break the opponent wouldnt suffer because of being "unlucky"

The opponent wouldn't have to suffer because someone got lucky -- but they get to be rewarded because someone gut unlucky?

Seems too weighted towards the guy sitting in the chair.
The breaker gets punished for making a good break if the ball goes in and has to redo it. And if they happen to scratch they get doubly punished.

Dennis "Whitey" Young · Apr 11, 2019

The only reason a scored ball is spotted on the break is because the breaker racks! This deviates from the traditional way OP is played, whereas the opponent racks.
The aftermath of this deviation is what you are dealing with now! And it has created a lot of discussion on these on going threads.

Some players like to have the scored ball count, but the inning ends and the opponent now can shoot. I personally do not like this, for what if I sell out to the opponent's hole! Not to happy with this rule then am I. Whitey

lll · Apr 12, 2019

sneakynito said:
The opponent wouldn't have to suffer because someone got lucky -- but they get to be rewarded because someone gut unlucky?

Seems too weighted towards the guy sitting in the chair.
The breaker gets punished for making a good break if the ball goes in and has to redo it. And if they happen to scratch they get doubly punished.

thanks for the reply

darmoose · Apr 12, 2019

sneakynito said:
The opponent wouldn't have to suffer because someone got lucky -- but they get to be rewarded because someone gut unlucky?

Seems too weighted towards the guy sitting in the chair.
The breaker gets punished for making a good break if the ball goes in and has to redo it. And if they happen to scratch they get doubly punished.

One of the most basic rules of pool, and indeed one pocket, is if you scratch you pay a penalty. In one pocket the penalty is one ball and your opponent gets BIH behind the line. There is nothing implicit in the "rerack" rule that suspends the penalty for scratching, and unless something is put into the "rerack" rule that explicitly does that, it is wrong to assume it is so.

I once had a guy while playing "rerack when a ball is made on the break" demand a rerack because he pocketed the CB on his break

:frus

:lol

sneakynito · Apr 12, 2019

darmoose said:
One of the most basic rules of pool, and indeed one pocket, is if you scratch you pay a penalty. In one pocket the penalty is one ball and your opponent gets BIH behind the line. There is nothing implicit in the "rerack" rule that suspends the penalty for scratching, and unless something is put into the "rerack" rule that explicitly does that, it is wrong to assume it is so.

An even more basic rule of pool is if you make a ball you keep shooting.
By implementing the rule they're saying the break is an exception to the rest of the game.
I don't think it's unreasonable for people to view it one way or the other (as evident by all the different opinions) and needs to be clarified prior.

Tennis as an analogy, the opening serve sets up that volley. A pretty basic rule of Tennis is if you don't hit the ball over the net your opponent gets a point. On the serve, however, there are faults and lets. Your first serve can smack a ball boy in the head and you still get to go again. You are not punished the first time.
Point being, by implementing any new rule on the break, others need to be clarified as well.

The rule as stated is make a ball on the break, rerack. There are no, "buts" specified.
Well I scratched. That doesn't negate that I made a ball on the break.

The purpose of the rule is so the breaker can't run out. What if I make a ball on the break, hang a ball in my opponent's pocket, and royally hook myself? I aint running out from here and I screwed myself. It's still a rerack.

By having a hidden exception to the rule, where you make a ball on the break and DON'T rerack, you're just inviting arguments.

darmoose said:

I once had a guy while playing "rerack when a ball is made on the break" demand a rerack because he pocketed the CB on his break :frus
:lol

Click to expand...

:lol:lol

sneakynito · Apr 12, 2019

lll said:
thanks for the reply

I appreciate the discussion.

Dennis "Whitey" Young · Apr 12, 2019

Someone wrote a rule, it is not the holy grail, that is for sure! We tend to view rules like they are god almighty because they are down in print, and they have the backing of their governing body, like the WPA or BCAPL. But in reality it is just someone with control and putting a rule down in words.

Rule: A scored ball on the break is a re-rack.

Rule: A scored ball legally pocketed on the break, is a re-rack.

See the difference! Whitey

sneakynito · Apr 12, 2019

Dennis "Whitey" Young said:
Someone wrote a rule, it is not the holy grail, that is for sure! We tend to view rules like they are god almighty because they are down in print, and they have the backing of their governing body, like the WPA or BCAPL. But in reality it is just someone with control and putting a rule down in words.

Rule: A scored ball on the break is a re-rack.

Rule: A scored ball legally pocketed on the break, is a re-rack.

See the difference! Whitey

Got it. So if I legally pocket a ball in my opponents pocket, re-rack. Sweet!

I agree with you, though. I just get a weird satisfaction out of being pedantic with rule wordings.
I am zero fun to play monopoly with.

lll · Apr 12, 2019

sneakynito said:
Got it. So if I legally pocket a ball in my opponents pocket, re-rack. Sweet!

I agree with you, though. I just get a weird satisfaction out of being pedantic with rule wordings.
I am zero fun to play monopoly with.

at least you are honest about that...

lll · Apr 12, 2019

Dennis "Whitey" Young said:
Someone wrote a rule, it is not the holy grail, that is for sure! We tend to view rules like they are god almighty because they are down in print, and they have the backing of their governing body, like the WPA or BCAPL. But in reality it is just someone with control and putting a rule down in words.

Rule: A scored ball on the break is a re-rack.

Rule: A scored ball legally pocketed on the break, is a re-rack.

See the difference! Whitey

whitey
you should be the rule writer.........

only question i would have is what if you made a ball legally in HIS pocket??
re-rack??

ball on break rerack question

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