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  #41  
Old 10-23-2014, 03:08 PM
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Cary Cary is offline
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Once upon time I was struggling mightily to understand trigonometry and, predictably, was having absolutely no luck. Eventually it was suggested that in order to pass the course I quit trying to understand "why", just learn the formula's and use them. It worked and I ended up with an "A" for the course.

You'd be amazed at the number of subjects to which that advice can successfully be applied.
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Last edited by Cary; 10-24-2014 at 09:02 AM.
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  #42  
Old 10-23-2014, 07:08 PM
backplaying backplaying is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
One what? Physicist? Me either (far as I know). But I'll bet there are some who can. If you think knowledge and good play are incompatible, then I agree you've got more important things to learn than physics.

pj
chgo
I changed my reply to, I had rather have talent at playing, than have talent at explaining it. I have noticed your disrespect for great players, by constantly disagreeing with them. If you were in a pool room arguing with a top player, you would get laughed out of the room. I guess it's just your way of doing what you do best, which is explaining why things happen, because you lack the ability to actually play well. Just like your non-stop doubting of everything CJ said. It can also be looked at as knocking, regardless of who was right! Also, many good players make great teachers without having to explain exactly why everything happens in every detail, myself for one.

Last edited by backplaying; 10-24-2014 at 03:57 AM.
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  #43  
Old 10-25-2014, 03:39 PM
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Patrick Johnson Patrick Johnson is offline
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Originally Posted by backplaying View Post
I had rather have talent at playing, than have talent at explaining it.
Just because you can't do both doesn't mean nobody can.

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Just like your non-stop doubting of everything CJ said.
Your inability to tell the difference between carnival barking and real info is unfortunate but not particularly surprising, since you're apparently a regular on the "Magical Thinking" forum at AzB (otherwise known as the "Stan Shuffet and CJ Wiley Fan Club").

pj
chgo

P.S. Yes, both those guys play great. Neither of them knows how they do it.
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  #44  
Old 10-25-2014, 07:57 PM
straightback straightback is offline
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PJ's arguments are (presumably) subject to attack on various grounds. However, the fact that be does not agree with CJ Wiley is not one of them. If you can't see past his pathetic attempts to hawk his hilarious CD's and techniques, then I regrettably know all that I need to know about you as a player and, more importantly, as a thinker.

There is a reason why only beginners flock to his circus tent - they don't know any better.
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  #45  
Old 10-25-2014, 10:23 PM
backplaying backplaying is offline
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Originally Posted by straightback View Post
PJ's arguments are (presumably) subject to attack on various grounds. However, the fact that be does not agree with CJ Wiley is not one of them. If you can't see past his pathetic attempts to hawk his hilarious CD's and techniques, then I regrettably know all that I need to know about you as a player and, more importantly, as a thinker.

There is a reason why only beginners flock to his circus tent - they don't know any better.
Which is why I threw the word knocking in. I'm a friend of CJ's and have no problem with someone trying to make a living in the pool world. Its tough enough without having knockers come into play. I happen to disagree with CJ's TOI and actually teach a touch of outside, if anything. I couldn't play at all using it, but some might. I also know you don't have to explain why something happens in every detail to teach. I'm also a friend of John B, and wouldn't second guess his post on how he makes a certain shot. The bottom line is,Patrick can't play, so, the only way he can compete is to claim real players don't know why the ball does certain things.
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  #46  
Old 10-25-2014, 10:28 PM
backplaying backplaying is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Just because you can't do both doesn't mean nobody can.


Your inability to tell the difference between carnival barking and real info is unfortunate but not particularly surprising, since you're apparently a regular on the "Magical Thinking" forum at AzB (otherwise known as the "Stan Shuffet and CJ Wiley Fan Club").

pj
chgo

P.S. Yes, both those guys play great. Neither of them knows how they do it.
Not a believer in any of it, just the opposite, to tell the truth. I guess you could say I'm anti-system everything! I met CJ when he was about 18 and am just a friend. There is a fine line in debating and knocking.
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  #47  
Old 10-26-2014, 12:06 AM
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Patrick Johnson Patrick Johnson is offline
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Originally Posted by backplaying View Post
I'm a friend of CJ's and have no problem with someone trying to make a living in the pool world.

...

There is a fine line in debating and knocking.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't realize that CJ peddles blatant bullshit to unsuspecting yokels. I'll even give him the same benefit and assume he actually believes the nonsense he sells.

But the fact that he may not realize he's peddling bullshit doesn't change the fact that it's bullshit, and the hundreds of online readers at AzB (and here, for that matter) deserve to know that more than he deserves to make money by selling them misinformation.

That's where I draw my line. I guess you have to decide for yourself where to draw the one between being CJ's friend and defending/enabling his selling of snake oil to your online "friends".

pj
chgo

(But CJ's carnival barker sales pitch sure makes it hard to believe he doesn't know he's hawking bullshit.)

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 10-26-2014 at 12:11 AM.
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  #48  
Old 10-26-2014, 09:28 AM
straightback straightback is offline
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Originally Posted by backplaying View Post
Which is why I threw the word knocking in. I'm a friend of CJ's and have no problem with someone trying to make a living in the pool world. Its tough enough without having knockers come into play. I happen to disagree with CJ's TOI and actually teach a touch of outside, if anything. I couldn't play at all using it, but some might. I also know you don't have to explain why something happens in every detail to teach. I'm also a friend of John B, and wouldn't second guess his post on how he makes a certain shot. The bottom line is,Patrick can't play, so, the only way he can compete is to claim real players don't know why the ball does certain things.
Well, first of all, thank you for letting us know you're a pal of CJ's. That in and of itself may tend to explain a lot here. Also, I have no problem with a man making a living. I do have a problem with someone who does or should know better peddling horseshit to innocent beginners.

PJ's competency at pool and his understanding of ball and rail behavior have nothing to do with one another. Be a friend to yourself and just address his argument and not his person.

There is a reason every player and pro who knows a thing about pool snickers when they hear "TOI." In fact, if I mention it and I don't see a smile on the other guy's face, I feel like I've got the best of it. If the guy says he actually employs the TOI method, I will typically start with accusing him of slow rolling me. Those are facts.
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  #49  
Old 10-26-2014, 12:26 PM
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SJDinPHX SJDinPHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightback View Post
Well, first of all, thank you for letting us know you're a pal of CJ's. That in and of itself may tend to explain a lot here. Also, I have no problem with a man making a living. I do have a problem with someone who does or should know better peddling horseshit to innocent beginners.

PJ's competency at pool and his understanding of ball and rail behavior have nothing to do with one another. Be a friend to yourself and just address his argument and not his person.

There is a reason every player and pro who knows a thing about pool snickers when they hear "TOI." In fact, if I mention it and I don't see a smile on the other guy's face, I feel like I've got the best of it. If the guy says he actually employs the TOI method, I will typically start with accusing him of slow rolling me. Those are facts.
Straightback, I have no problem with PJ, or BP, and certainly none with you, re; CJ's status as a "teacher"!..I have given him his props, as a smart businessman... However, I am definitely in PJ's camp, in his description of him as a "carnival barker".

I don't consider it 'knocking' to advance that opinion...However what has been said, (in no uncertain terms) on this site, got myself and PJ extensive "vacations" from AZB, for what they called "abusive" posts !...I can understand them protecting him, as he is one of there regular (albeit shady) advertiser's.

I cannot understand his being allowed to take advantage of beginner's, by promoting his 'TOI' as a valid method of playing 'better' pool...Quite the opposite..'TOI' is probably the WORST method for improving anyone's play, and most decent pool player's deservedly scoff at it !.. I consider it a service, to expose that opinion, to unwitting beginner's..(or anyone else, for that matter)

SJD <--Is, (it appears)..destined to always be skating on thin ice, for exposing, and challenging 'anyone' who advances erroneous, or false information...personal, or otherwise !
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  #50  
Old 10-26-2014, 12:36 PM
petie petie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX View Post
Straightback, I have no problem with PJ, or BP, and certainly none with you, re; CJ's status as a "teacher"!..I have given him his props, as a smart businessman... However, I am definitely in PJ's camp, in his description of him as a "carnival barker".

I don't consider it 'knocking' to advance that opinion...However what has been said, (in no uncertain terms) on this site, got myself and PJ extensive "vacations" from AZB, for what they called "abusive" posts !...I can understand them protecting him, as he is one of there regular (albeit shady) advertiser's.

I cannot understand his being allowed to take advantage of beginner's, by promoting his 'TOI' as a valid method of playing 'better' pool...Quite the opposite..'TOI' is probably the WORST method for improving anyone's play, and most decent pool player's deservedly scoff at it !.. I consider it a service, to expose that opinion, to unwitting beginner's..(or anyone else, for that matter)

SJD <--Is, (it appears)..destined to always be skating on thin ice, for exposing, and challenging 'anyone' who advances erroneous, or false information...personal, or otherwise !
Don't ask me to prove it but I could swear I saw a vid of Shane saying he uses that method. I myself use it once in a great while when I am perpendicular to the rail and dead even with an OB that I want to cut down the rail. I don't know, I think it gives me a touch of squirt on the CB that makes me cut the OB a little thinner. Pool is all in your head.

Last edited by petie; 10-26-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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