Go Back   OnePocket.org Forums > One Pocket Forum
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:03 AM
Tom Wirth's Avatar
Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
Tom, post #31 is this the shot your talking about?
No sir, I propose coming at the three from the foot rail and ticky the three. Coming at the ticky from the top rail can work too but I have never liked sending both an object ball and the cue ball towards the foot rail unless I know what they will do or I can be certain to hide the cue ball behind other balls. This can not happen kicking the three from the top rail.

If I were to come at the three from the top rail I would be far better off using the eleven to ticky the three and hold the cue ball on the top rail. If I were at the table and had a good feel for the layout that might end up being my number one choice here. It's not as risky as it may appear if the cue ball remains close to the rail. The angle looks pretty good for that shot.

Tom
__________________

"Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

Last edited by Tom Wirth; 09-22-2019 at 02:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:16 PM
gulfportdoc's Avatar
gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Gulfport, Mississippi
Posts: 9,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
Doc. Bill, You know I have the greatest respect for your strategic One Pocket thinking and with your cueing skills. I have no doubt of your ability to execute the shot as your intend. I also feel if you do get the cue ball to that intended location the shot will accomplish what you were looking for. I on the other hand feel just as comfortable with the two rail ticky on the three. Given the position of both the three and cue balls this shot is easy to measure, (A simple mirror system will get'er done) though I admit it is a bit more complicated than spinning off the eight.
...
Yeah, bro, I really like that shot too. Hit well, it may be better than either 8 ball shot.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:07 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 1,248
Default

In continuing the debate as to whether the ticky on the 3 or the two shots coming off the 8 is the better selection.

Sorry Tom, I have to side with Dr. Bill and Jerry coming off the 8 and holding up the cb on the line of the 1st. diamond, and Doc's shot coming off the 8 and going up against the 3, and if it gets behind the 3, game over!

Coming off the 8 and keeping the cb on the line of the 1st. diamond while bringing the 8 off and far enough out so it can not be banked but yet blocks the 6 ball bank, squarely keeps the advantage. The return shot would be to come off the 9 two rails up against the backside of the 8, but this leaves the straight back bank on the 7.
The same thing with Doc's shot, the 8 blocks up the banks on the 5 & 6.
Now we have the 8 in a scoring position and the 7 is protected.

Whereas the ticky on the 3, and even hit as you depict, leaves a clear shot at the 7, and other balls to work with, of which could end up in a defensive lockup. Whitey
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:32 PM
Tom Wirth's Avatar
Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
In continuing the debate as to whether the ticky on the 3 or the two shots coming off the 8 is the better selection.

Sorry Tom, I have to side with Dr. Bill and Jerry coming off the 8 and holding up the cb on the line of the 1st. diamond, and Doc's shot coming off the 8 and going up against the 3, and if it gets behind the 3, game over!

Coming off the 8 and keeping the cb on the line of the 1st. diamond while bringing the 8 off and far enough out so it can not be banked but yet blocks the 6 ball bank, squarely keeps the advantage. The return shot would be to come off the 9 two rails up against the backside of the 8, but this leaves the straight back bank on the 7.
The same thing with Doc's shot, the 8 blocks up the banks on the 5 & 6.
Now we have the 8 in a scoring position and the 7 is protected.

Whereas the ticky on the 3, and even hit as you depict, leaves a clear shot at the 7, and other balls to work with, of which could end up in a defensive lockup. Whitey
No apology necessary Whitey, You like anyone else are entitled to your opinions. I am entitled to mine. Trying to position the eight ball to block the banks on either the five or six can leave an unintended gap. I think you must grant me that. Playing the shot as Bill suggests might leave a bank, probably not. Come up two or three inches higher than where Bill suggests definitely leaves a bank. Even so, I see the shot as rather passive and accomplishes little. Maybe that's all one should expect from that position. Who really knows? Playing weaker players any conservative shot works fine.

For now, I"m sure you don't mind if I stick to my ticky on the three and take my chances.

Tom
__________________

"Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:10 PM
Tom Wirth's Avatar
Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,539
Default

Okay sports fans, I've got a report to file.

I took the three most popular options to the table and tried them all a number of times. These options were; #1 Spinning the cue ball off the eight as the "Good Doctor" suggested; #2 My option. Kicking two rails off the foot rail to ticky the three and send the cue ball up table; #3 Banking the eleven ball into the three and sticking the cue ball on the top rail.

And the winner is..........................................







Banking the eleven ball into the three and holding the cue ball to the top rail!
Hands down this is the best option.

No matter how the three ball is struck the shot comes out very well. I suppose it would be possible to hit the three so cleanly that it hangs in the opposing player's pocket but that risk is next to nil.
The typical result of this shot was to send both the eleven and three to the shooter's side of the table. In shooting this shot I once even managed to break up the cluster a bit and send even more balls towards the shooter's hole. This particular shot had a devastatingly good outcome.

Now for the other two options.

First Doc. Bill's shot. I give him great latitude here because it is quite different to envision a shot from photos than it is to set it up and actually try it. I attempted the shot several times by spinning the cue ball off the eight, trying to hold the cue ball low enough to prevent the opponent from having a bank on the six. I was unable to prevent giving up the bank. The only way to prevent this was to draw the cue ball off the eight hitting it rather full. I once struck the seven sending both balls away from my pocket. I cut it a tad more and prevented that from occurring but the eight left town.

Now for the shot I liked; the ticky on the three ball. Well, It came out well a few times but it also sold out a relatively easy cross bank on the seven when i hit the three dead center basically stopping the cue ball. There is no legitimate reason to risk that possibility from this position.

So you see. I am being objective in my analysis of these three options. I don't like Bill's shot but at least it doesn't sell out if hit with draw and keeping the cue ball below the first diamond. This sets up a neutral situation and almost assures an up table game.

I don't like my option either for the reason I just stated even though in most cases the shot was very effective.

The only shot that consistently came out well was the bank on the eleven. So, whoever made that suggestion or sided with that choice gets my cookie. It was easy to execute and control the cue ball. What more could one ask for? I ask you.
Well done!

Tom
__________________

"Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

Last edited by Tom Wirth; 09-22-2019 at 10:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:41 PM
vapros vapros is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 3,267
Default

Great report from TW. I watch his videos and I often think we could benefit from a bit more commentary, but also I am impressed with his performance on the table. Today he went to the table and got to the bottom of this WWYD, and we should all pay attention. He even debunked his own shot. Good on you, Mr. W!
__________________
If it ain't funny, it ain't much.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-23-2019, 12:01 AM
One Pocket Ghost's Avatar
One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ghosttown
Posts: 8,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vapros View Post
Great report from TW. I watch his videos and I often think we could benefit from a bit more commentary, but also I am impressed with his performance on the table. Today he went to the table and got to the bottom of this WWYD, and we should all pay attention. He even debunked his own shot. Good on you, Mr. W!

And also, good on the Ghost for supplying us with this wwyd, and all the other wwyd's.
Thanks for sayin' brother Bill...
__________________
jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-23-2019, 12:27 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 1,248
Default

Tom, on our early posts we discussed the 11 bank ticky into the 3. Ghost, rightfully pointed out that there is a return lock up safety either coming off the 12 leaving the cb behind the 8, while sending a ball to the opponent's hole. What I found on this shot is that it has to be hit hard to end up getting a ball by your hole to help prevent the return safety.

I did this shot a few days ago, and I went around the 3 twice, hit it on the wrong side twice, made the 3, and finally did it right but then realized I needed to hit it much harder to help prevent the return safety.

Dr. Bill's shot, I did not try to get the cb to the side rail, but only played to get over on that side across from the 1st. diamond, played the eight high enough so it can not be banked nor the six. I felt it was fairly easy, but just like any of these shot selections, they have to be hit precisely for the 5 & 6 can be banked by either opponent and the 5,6,7 & 12 can be banked by the opponent if left. But in doing Dr. Bill's shot, I then realized his strategy, and that is keeping your advantage.

Most all of these shot selections are excellent but they all have to be precisely hit, especially the bank shots the bring both the ob and cb back to the foot rail. Nice reporting on the shots, and I am glad someone else is taking these shots to the table. I do it as a learning experience, for I do not have the experience to just say do this shot.

I like Doc's coming off the 8 and going over by the 3 the best. Whitey
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:29 AM
Tom Wirth's Avatar
Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,539
Default

[QUOTE=Dennis "Whitey" Young;264387]Tom, on our early posts we discussed the 11 bank ticky into the 3. Ghost, rightfully pointed out that there is a return lock up safety either coming off the 12 leaving the cb behind the 8, while sending a ball to the opponent's hole. What I found on this shot is that it has to be hit hard to end up getting a ball by your hole to help prevent the return safety.
Whitey
The shot should be hit firmly for two reasons. First, it allows the shooter to force stun the cue ball forward to the head rail with accuracy. (When sending the cue ball some distance to reach an object ball I prefer using a firm stroke. I have considerably better accuracy) And second, it helps to bring the two balls across the table. The first hits the second on either side and they both must cross.
Tom
__________________

"Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:21 PM
wincardona wincardona is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 7,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
Okay sports fans, I've got a report to file.

I took the three most popular options to the table and tried them all a number of times. These options were; #1 Spinning the cue ball off the eight as the "Good Doctor" suggested; #2 My option. Kicking two rails off the foot rail to ticky the three and send the cue ball up table; #3 Banking the eleven ball into the three and sticking the cue ball on the top rail.

And the winner is..........................................






Banking the eleven ball into the three and holding the cue ball to the top rail!
Hands down this is the best option.

No matter how the three ball is struck the shot comes out very well. I suppose it would be possible to hit the three so cleanly that it hangs in the opposing player's pocket but that risk is next to nil.
The typical result of this shot was to send both the eleven and three to the shooter's side of the table. In shooting this shot I once even managed to break up the cluster a bit and send even more balls towards the shooter's hole. This particular shot had a devastatingly good outcome.

Now for the other two options.

First Doc. Bill's shot. I give him great latitude here because it is quite different to envision a shot from photos than it is to set it up and actually try it. I attempted the shot several times by spinning the cue ball off the eight, trying to hold the cue ball low enough to prevent the opponent from having a bank on the six. I was unable to prevent giving up the bank. The only way to prevent this was to draw the cue ball off the eight hitting it rather full. I once struck the seven sending both balls away from my pocket. I cut it a tad more and prevented that from occurring but the eight left town.

Now for the shot I liked; the ticky on the three ball. Well, It came out well a few times but it also sold out a relatively easy cross bank on the seven when i hit the three dead center basically stopping the cue ball. There is no legitimate reason to risk that possibility from this position.

So you see. I am being objective in my analysis of these three options. I don't like Bill's shot but at least it doesn't sell out if hit with draw and keeping the cue ball below the first diamond. This sets up a neutral situation and almost assures an up table game.

I don't like my option either for the reason I just stated even though in most cases the shot was very effective.

The only shot that consistently came out well was the bank on the eleven. So, whoever made that suggestion or sided with that choice gets my cookie. It was easy to execute and control the cue ball. What more could one ask for? I ask you.
Well done!

Tom
Tom, you must be setting up the balls different than they are laying on the table. I say this because I went to the table and played my shot softly spinning off the 8ball and rolling to the side rail with ease and also consistently. There is absolutely no need to draw the cue ball the angle is laying perfectly to execute this shot. Also as I mentioned, after rolling to the side rail and the 8ball is now positioned to the inside of the 7ball my opponent can only answer by coming off the 6ball or the 9ball and I will then have in many cases a good return off his safety.

I played my self coming off the 8ball sending the cue ball to the side rail about 3 to 4" above the 1st diamond about 2" off the rail. From this position my opponent can only come off of either the 6ball or the 9ball. He must protect the 3ball that is positioned on his side of the table, so I thinly cut the 9ball and sent the cue ball to the side rail about 3 to 4" up the rail and again about 2" off the side rail. This leave left a back cut bank on the 6ball with the 5ball as a buffer sending the cue ball under the 3ball. I made the bank and now I have either a shot on the 3ball to bank or an option to position the 3ball on my side sending the cue ball up table. Like I mentioned after coming off the 8ball and positioning the cue ball near the side rail my opponent will not like his position. Please respond would like to play this position with you from our computers.

By the way the bank on the 11ball into the 3ball is a very strong shot and would very possibly be my shot of choice from this position.

Dr. Bill
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All original content Copyright Onepocket.org and/or the original author. All rights reserved.