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  #71  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:38 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
Billy, don't forget I'm shooting here from out of the jaws of the pocket, so it's not to be expected to precisely control the cueball and the 5 when shooting this shot...that said, I was satisfied with my execution and my result...and then...

John shot the 10 in while trying to also get some kind of shape on one of the up-table balls - unsurprisingly he didn't get any shape, and we played from there at the 7-5 score.

P.S. >>>



Sure my opponent could shoot this flyer...but he's waay more likely to end up leaving me a cut shot or a cross-corner bank than for it to turn out good for him......

And I'd LOVE to prop-bet that with you next time you come up here...



- Ghost
Be careful what you ask for Ghosty Needing all four balls if the shot lays well it's a very viable option. Like I mentioned I pocketed the 10ball off the 12ball and the 5ball fell into the side pocket while the 12ball rested close to my pocket near the 1st diamond on the head rail.

Don't forget with three balls now down table and the 10ball hanging in my pocket you're not going to shoot at your hole from the top rail unless it's a hanger. So do you still want to prop bet my return option against what ever shot you choose?

And am I understanding this correctly when you say you are comfortable with your leave placing the 5ball on the side rail as opposed to placing it near the 12ball?


Dr. Bill
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  #72  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:13 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
As Billy reiterates here ^^^ ...


So obviously, taking the 5 out of play is what I chose to shoot in this position, and if my opponent can get shape to bank the 5ball cross-corner next - God bless him - I'll tap my stick and say "nice shot"......and hey Tom, did I leave the cueball just about where you also wanted to?... >>>
Yes Ghost, this is just about where I would want the 5. I think you brought the cue ball out a bit too far from the side rail which allows your opponent a better angle to play the ten but You did well.

If I understand Billy correctly now. He is thinking forward from this position and played a bank carom (12 into the edge of the five) sending both balls his way. Am I right here Bill? Nice shot but one not likely to be anticipated. Wouldn't you agree the angles must be just right for that scenario?

Tom
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  #73  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:17 PM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Originally Posted by Kybanks View Post
You assume that my understanding is lesser than yours? I understand that being understanding is understandable in certain understandings.

That's funny,Ky..

I try not to assume anything, but sometimes I slip
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  #74  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:29 PM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Originally Posted by Frank Almanza View Post
Troubles with trying to pocket the ten ball.
With the position of the ten ball, if you masse there is a good chance to double hit it and not make it. And if you do make it you might follow the cue ball in too, Also you might dog the stroke and not get enough curve to make the ten.

Kicking it in and having to go a bit over 18 ft is a bit chancy too. Plus it you hit it too good you might also follow in.

The carom off the five ball will require a fair amount of speed making it it hard to control the five ball along with the fact that you might miss hit it and not pocket the ten ball. The carom is not a natural hit and will require a bit of draw.
Frank,

You make waaaaay to much sense for all these gophers.
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  #75  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:47 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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that is what i alluded to in my posts that sending the 5 up there can leave shots that can send balls back towards his hole while he leaves the ten there. where it was left is exactly one of them.

if you leave it where billy said you may not leave him that option but a little off and it pops up again.

for me i know i can almost always bank that ten in from the jaws. so that is still my shot.

thanks for the wwyd ghost it was a good one that looked to each side an easy pick.
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  #76  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:31 PM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Be careful what you ask for Ghosty So do you still want to prop bet my return option against what ever shot you choose?

Dr. Bill
No, that's not my bet...my prop bet is you keep shooting your shot over and over, and a judge decides whether you sold out a shot to me or not each time...


Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post

And am I understanding this correctly when you say you are comfortable with your leave placing the 5ball on the side rail as opposed to placing it near the 12ball?

Dr. Bill
I'm not opposed to either shot...I'm fine with leaving the 5 by the side rail or by the 12.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
Yes Ghost, this is just about where I would want
the 5. I think you brought the cue ball out a bit too far from the side rail which allows your opponent a better angle to play the ten but You did well.

Tom
Except Tom...the upside to my getting my cueball to where I did, is that John can't easily reach the cueball from there - and if the cueball was closer to the long rail as you suggest, he would reach the cueball more comfortably, and thus, be able to execute better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beatle View Post

thanks for the wwyd ghost it was a good one that looked to each side an easy pick.
You're welcome brother beatle.
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  #77  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:52 PM
Kybanks Kybanks is offline
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Originally Posted by darmoose View Post

That's funny,Ky..

I try not to assume anything, but sometimes I slip
Just giving ya a hard time! Be careful how you word your prop bets, cuz you can only make the 5 ball to win! Your words, not mine.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:14 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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In hitting the 5, I would bank it just short of the 8 with enough speed so it continues and covers the 12. This way the cb stays within the bridge zone, plus I am not giving up a possible return bank on the 5 if I were to leave it on the side rail. It is easy to go 5 rails with the cb and lay on the 5 bank.

*Also I believe the 12 will double bank out of the corner and go into the opponents pocket. So leaving the 5 ball on the side rail does not protect against this return bank, if the opponent chooses to do the bank on the 12 versus pocketing the 10, or make the 10 then bank the 12. It is pretty darn easy to first come off the side rail when pocketing the 10 and coming 3 rails to get on the 12 for a double bank.*

Kicking in the 10 with excellent speed and leaving the cb either on the side rail or just in front of the pocket, leaves a pretty hard return bank on the 5, for it has to be hit with inside english to get the cb down table plus to get out of the cross side scratch. The 5 has to be hit pretty hard to get it to the hole, this will have the cb Z bank over by the balls down table, and possibly behind the 8. If the bank is not made he could sell out the 12 bank, if he makes it he then probably would have a bank on the 12.

A tough choice after weighing it all, it is against my thinking to give him a clean shot on the 10, and with the bridge I was able to bring the cb back to those balls down table. But I see the logic! If I pocket the 10 then the opponent better hit a good bank on the 5 or he just might of lost the game!

Thanks guys, I am learning, for I thought just pocket the 10. Great shot Dr. Bill coming off the 5 with the 12! Wow! Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-12-2019 at 12:25 AM.
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  #79  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:07 AM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Bruce,

I want to add my thanks for this particular WWYD. There have been a lot of WWYD's, some I have participated in and some not.

Most of them boil down to how many different offensive shots can one imagine from a given situation. And while that can be entertaining, I don't find it very educational.

The vociferousness of the argument here and the deep dive into why one should do what, is a testament to the value of risk/reward analysis, which I think was your purpose as a teacher.

Even though we don't all agree on the solution to your question, I think everyone had to be impressed with the "below the surface" complexity of what initially looked like a joke to Dr. Bill.

It is that subtle complexity that makes OP such an enjoyable and fascinating game to me, and for demonstrating that, I think this is one of the finest WWYD's I have seen.

I don't know if it is over yet, but good job.
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Last edited by darmoose; 10-12-2019 at 12:09 AM. Reason: error
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  #80  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:13 AM
lll lll is online now
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ghost
this has been a GREAT wwyd.
the discussions and explanations behind the reasons for the shot selection have been of tremendous benefit to me.
thanks
larry
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