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  #221  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by onepocket926 View Post
...first off...thanks for the heads-up on post #6....some on here have been to "quick to shoot"....and would assume that I dissagree...with your assesment......

....when actually I was trying to make sure that I completely understand the rule...I have in the past been approached for a ruling between novice players......and I dont want to "breed ignorance" (bet hacker would love to respond in this forum to that comment )

.......here's where I keep ......I did actually read post #6 and it was that thread that prompted me to respond....in it you say...."There is no foul until your opponent calls one on you"........and in the thread I actually responded to...you say that you would automaticly say..."no foul".....if your opponant called one on himself.......it leads me to wonder weather or not you as the "opponent"...alone have the...option.....of allowing or not allowing the "shooters" self calling of a foul to stand....

....I have always assumed that in the absence of an impartial Referee...the 2 players were to act in Consensus.....to referee thier own match and when that Consensus could not be reached the ......impartial Referee was to be called....

....it seems to me that if only your opponant has the right to call a foul on you......he could call one at any time...and you would have no recorse.....

....so if the impartial Referee is called to settle the dissagreement...and he is ..."bias neutral".......the foul would stand on it's own....

.....I apreciate the info.....and am waiting for the jack hammer so I can get thru this......

thanks,
OP926,

I have no idea what tournament rules are but in the post of mine you first quoted I was referring to what I would do if I was watching your shot closely (which is what I do) and saw no foul committed. In that situation I would not let you spot a ball by calling a foul on yourself. I would never not call a foul that occurred.

Dennis
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  #222  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy B View Post
We had an expression we use to say. When we use to go to the restroom, we would say to our oppornent "Go ahead and shoot ya cock off" which just meant to go ahead and take your turn at the table while I go to take a leak.......
.........that saying......is a lil' to familiar for my blood......but I get the drift.........
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  #223  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
OP926,

I have no idea what tournament rules are but in the post of mine you first quoted I was referring to what I would do if I was watching your shot closely (which is what I do) and saw no foul committed. In that situation I would not let you spot a ball by calling a foul on yourself. I would never not call a foul that occurred.

Dennis
........in that case.....I agree wholeheartedly....and if someone questions my call.......I'm taking them to this site...and reference this thread.......

....thanks for the info...
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  #224  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by onepocket926 View Post
........in that case.....I agree wholeheartedly....and if someone questions my call.......I'm taking them to this site...and reference this thread.......

....thanks for the info...
If you look in Petie's "two different worlds" thread and elsewhere in this thread you will see the opinions of SacTownTom & Red Shoes, both of whom run tournaments and they both say that a player cannot call fouls on himself.

Dennis
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  #225  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
If you look in Petie's "two different worlds" thread and elsewhere in this thread you will see the opinions of SacTownTom & Red Shoes, both of whom run tournaments and they both say that a player cannot call fouls on himself.

Dennis
......I think I'll look at Petie's thread first......re-reading this one....would be tantamount to reading...."War and Peace".......(20 some pages and growing in leaps and bounds )
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  #226  
Old 05-18-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
If you look in Petie's "two different worlds" thread and elsewhere in this thread you will see the opinions of SacTownTom & Red Shoes, both of whom run tournaments and they both say that a player cannot call fouls on himself.

Dennis
..........at first I thought you sent me on a ...."Snipe hunt".......(23 pages to review)

.....thanks again for the nudge.......it forced me to find the answerer to my own question.....

.....as far as the Ethical Issue goes.......it only takes one integrity infraction to end my session and any further re-matches....if I think the guy is a NIT...he's off.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shoes View Post
Doc...There are situations in "one pocket" where saying you committed a "foul" where none happened would "favor" the shooter. As much as I agree that a "foul" is a stand alone event (either it "happened" or it "didn't happen"). "IF" the cash is on the line predicated on the outcome of the shot, both players must "agree" that the "event" took place. That is why on questionable shots....it is better to get a "caller" (referee) which is what most experienced players would do. It is a rare situation where the "shooter" is aware of committing a foul that the opponent is unaware of. THAT being said...."pool players" are not members of the Royal Family....and might "see" or "unsee" things favoring their situations. All I ask of a player playing for my cash is to do everything (AND ONLY) legal things to win.
....the legal part of my question (of which I'm pretty sure I wasn't very clear about..... but, in my defence...I'm still reelin' over this Hacker thing.......) ....has to do with weather or not....the Opponent of the Shooting Player.....leagly has the option.....to "unsee" the foul....that actually occured......

......Pool Lawyers are a dime a dozen....every poolroom has a few......but Judges (Referee's or those asked to make a game changing ruling) are far and few between......and when I'm asked to Officiate....I don't want to have to go back and apologize for an incorrect decision (pay the price of the game to the Player that was wronged)....

......I did go back and search all the pages for Sactown's ruling on the subject....I found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SactownTom View Post
Often the shooter isn't aware of the foul that has been committed.

And visa versa;He may be watching the Object ball to see if it hit a rail and it doesn't but the cue ball did. He calls a foul on himself and it is a wrong call.

Most players will call the obvious fouls because they think they are suppose to. In the rules, the non-shooter is suppose to make the calls.

Calling fouls on yourself may make you feel good about yourself, but if you are talking about "integrity" who will go back and refile their taxes when they find mistakes that cause them to pay more?

When you run a stop sign, do you look for a cop to write you a ticket?

When playing in a ref''d match, if you are talking while your opponent is at the table it is considered unsportsmanlike conduct. Silent and in your assigned chair is the tournament rule when there is a Ref presiding. The ref is there to make calls, this is to relieve the shooter from having to make calls on himself and for the non-shooter to be represented at the table.

.....so I went to the INTERNET and researched all the one pocket rules I could find....and they all seem to have a consensus:

World Standardized Rules of One Pocket

• Please note that playing ‘snooze you lose’ is the rare exception in house rules; it is by no means the standard rule,
and it should only be accepted when it is clearly and mutually agreed on by both players before play begins.


FAQ's

What rules apply if we don't have a referee or official to watch the game?

• If no referee or official is available to officiate a play, players should referee their own match. Play resumes when
players come to an agreement on scoring or disputes and the agreement is deemed final. A neutral party agreed
upon by all players
can be called to "watch the hit" if either player believes that it may be necessary. The players
should not dispute with the neutral party, deem their decision as final and resume play. Usually the opponent
takes the responsibility
for calling a neutral party to watch the hit. Should players not come to an agreement, the
ball should be spotted on the foot spot if no other balls occupy the space or in a direct line behind the foot spot.


Official BCA One Pocket Rules Page 2

12. Close calls and conflict resolution

12.1 Unless a referee is assigned, players shall be responsible for refereeing their own match. Whenever the players themselves can come to an amicable agreement on any scoring or officiating issues to their satisfaction, and play continues, their decision shall be deemed final. If at anytime in a match either player anticipates a close call, or would like a neutral party to spot a ball, or wishes to have an official ruling in any conflict, then an official should be called. The non-shooting player bears extra responsibility to call an official if they anticipate a close call. In the event of any ?too close to call' situation, arbitration should favor the shooter unless there is verifiable mitigating evidence in the judgment of the official. In the event of a disagreement over a contested ball, with no evidence in the judgment of the official to warrant crediting the ball to either player, then the contested ball shall be deemed a neutral ball, and spotted according to rule 9.4.If there is no tournament official, then the ?house man' or another mutually agreed on impartial observer should be summoned to arbitrate. Their decision should be considered final.

...I could find no rule that says "the non-shooter is suppose to make the calls"....

......so I have concluded:

....keeping in mind this situation rarely occurs and in a non tournament situation between any two players.....rules are what they agree upon (example: Prop Games)....

..... in the absence of "pre-agranged"... rules or..... "house rules".....it is your obligation to call a foul if one was committed (even on yourself)...and your obligation to allow it........The Foul Stands Alone......no option is available to either player.....if a consensus cannot be reached....an Official Ruling....would have to be solicited.....

......thanks again for the push....I now can with all Conviction...say..."why don't you two....just flip a damn coin".....
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  #227  
Old 05-18-2012, 01:48 PM
Scrzbill Scrzbill is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Brilliant retort...five months later. You need to up your meds SkeezerBill.

RBL
Are you still dealing that stuff?
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  #228  
Old 05-18-2012, 03:35 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Are you still dealing that stuff?
OMG...LMFAO...ROTFLMFAO. You reply 5 months later, I point it out and I'm goofy?.

Then you make 3 posts in 13 minutes in three different threads.

Better make all your posts before the L-Dopa wears off & your coma returns.

RBL
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  #229  
Old 05-18-2012, 06:08 PM
Scrzbill Scrzbill is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
OMG...LMFAO...ROTFLMFAO. You reply 5 months later, I point it out and I'm goofy?.

Then you make 3 posts in 13 minutes in three different threads.

Better make all your posts before the L-Dopa wears off & your coma returns.

RBL
I am not someone sitting in my pajamas in my mother basement, waiting for the latest screed. I have a life an occasionally drop all sensibility to read drivel. This thread has been around for years and yet hear you are.
My three post were confused? Get an education if you have trouble. Who said you were goofy besides half the posters at onepocket.org? I said you werea misogynist. It's in the dictionary, have someone read it to you.
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  #230  
Old 05-18-2012, 06:18 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Originally Posted by Scrzbill View Post
I am someone sitting in my pajamas in my mother's basement, waiting for the latest screed. I have no life and occasionally drop all sensibility to read drivel. This thread has been around for years and yet hear you are.
My three post were confused? Get an education if you have trouble. Who said you were goofy besides half the posters at onepocket.org? I said you werea misogynist. It's in the dictionary, have someone read it to you.
SkeezerBill,

You know what else is in the dictionary? "Hear" and "Here". Try looking them up. Also, it should list "Lake Michigan" for you.

This thread has been around for years? It hasn't even been around for 14 months.

You need to up your meds Bill. I think the L-Dopa's wearing off. See you when you come out.

P.S. If I get an education like yours can I also get banned from the All-Zaniness site?

RBL
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