Go Back   OnePocket.org Forums > One Pocket Forum
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-03-2018, 01:23 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.
Posts: 1,249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
We did have a few slow players and matches that would have otherwise went way long. As the majority of matches are played on the loser side , the question is if there were even more slow players how could going to 2 not help? For instance, we had a match on the loser side that was 1-1 at the 2 hour mark. Going to 2 was a huge time saver in that match.
One match towards the end of the tournament that is going over can hold up the whole bracket!

It looks like the MOT and Seniors has migrated your way, anyway! That's ok, you have ran a successful bank pool and OP tournament so I am listening! Whitey
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-2018, 01:27 PM
crabbcatjohn crabbcatjohn is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Benton, Ky.
Posts: 2,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
For most of the matches, a race to 3 works fine. It seems to me that there are only a handful that run overly long -- definitely a little more so for the seniors, but they are already starting early enough Friday. They just did not play off any one-loss rounds Friday, and that caused a two round back up that very first day that they could not recover from given the slowish play of the senior players.

We made that mistake with the member tournament also. As long as we set goals for how far each day is going to progress in the tournament, and then we stick to it, we should finish overall in a reasonable time. So far we have not -- mainly due to the learning curve, but also bucking to host room pressure not to eliminate any players the first day, and maybe also some player pressure not to have to play one more round on either Friday or Sat night or too early in the AM when players already consider themselves exhausted or unprepared in the AM.

Personally I would rather get bumped the first day, or have to play later at night (or earlier in the morning) than go to a race to 2.

That's my opinion.
The only way to do that is to start at noon on Friday and then cross you fingers. The problem that keeps cropping up is you have to consider worse case scenarios in tournament planning. We don't have that in place in any of these tournaments. For instance, if finished with the final race to 4 going 4 hours, the tournament in Houston would have taken approx 21 hrs on the last day. They were an entire day and a half behind but they are now talking about playing 1 extra match on Thursday night. That still won't work but you can't fix it demanding races to three on the losers that still won't work... Same scenario with our members tournament.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-03-2018, 01:30 PM
catkins's Avatar
catkins catkins is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: oakland california
Posts: 438
Default

you could go the other way and do shorter races on the first day and than longer as the tournament gets down to the top 16 that would allow more time for the people who will play the hardest and most likley have the longest matches
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-2018, 02:35 PM
NH Steve's Avatar
NH Steve NH Steve is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 8,378
Default

First day with 32 players
Round 1: 32 players 16 matches (played on 16 tables)

Round 2: 16 winners to be played simultaneously with
16 one-loss players (total of 16 played on 16 tables)

First day with less than 16 tables, has to start early -- like noon -- because the above two rounds now become essentially four rounds, but no one is ever waiting for more than one match to finish so their second match can begin. With a noon start, taking advantage of open tables, other matches can carry on, so the worst that can happen is a player going back-to-back in successive long matches (has to be partly their own doing). These players will have to play out their round Friday night. That is very reasonable to ask -- everyone has to finish at least two matches that first day!!

2nd Day The tournament is now down to 8-12 tables at the most for the rest of the tournament, so from Round 3 on, it makes no difference whatsoever whether we are in a room with less than 16 tables or more. Saturday is likely to be a long day, with 4 rounds, so a preferred start time would be 10 AM.

Round 3: 8 players that won their one-loss match vs the 8 that lost their second round winner side match play 8 matches.

Round 4: 8 winner side players play 4 matches, starting as soon as tables from the one-loss round become available. As tables continue to become available, the 8 players in the one-loss side that won in Round 3 play their 4 matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes.

Round 5: The 4 players that won their one-loss match vs the 4 that lost their winner side match play their 4 matches. These matches start as soon as tables and players become available.

Round 6: The 4 players that advanced on the winner side play two matches, at the same time the 4 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their two matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The two losers in the one-loss side finish in 7th/8th place.

Sunday final day

Round 7: The 4 remaining players in the one-loss side play their 2 matches, with the losers finishing in 5th/6th place.

Round 8: The 2 players that advanced on the winner side play their match for the hot seat, at the same time the 2 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their match. Since these two matches play simultaneously, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The loser on the one-loss side finishes 3rd in the tournament.

Round 9: Finals single race, winner of the hot seat gets the first break.

I would make all winner side matches a race to 3, and the default for the one-loss also races to 3, but if any section of the one-loss side is behind schedule on Saturday, those matches in that section could be races to 2 until the chart is back on schedule. Or you could simply make Rounds 3-4-5 only on Saturday races to 2 on the one-loss side. Saturday is the only problem day in this schedule. Round 6 on the one-loss side determines 7th/8th place so it would be nice to make it a race to 3 -- and it would be the last two matches Saturday night, so just let them play it out. Sunday is only 3 rounds so I don't think you would need to go to any races to 2 for the Sunday matches. Likewise, I see no need for races to 2 on Friday with 32 players -- just let them play it out Friday night!

We have yet to play according to this schedule, we kind of intended last time, but didn't stick to it because of the host room preference not to eliminate players Friday night. That is impossible in our group in a double elimination format if you ask me lol.

Opinions?
__________________
"One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
-- Strawberry Brooks
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-03-2018, 02:45 PM
NH Steve's Avatar
NH Steve NH Steve is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 8,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
First day with 32 players
Round 1: 32 players 16 matches (played on 16 tables)

Round 2: 16 winners to be played simultaneously with
16 one-loss players (total of 16 played on 16 tables)

First day with less than 16 tables, has to start early -- like noon -- because the above two rounds now become essentially four rounds, but no one is ever waiting for more than one match to finish so their second match can begin. With a noon start, taking advantage of open tables, other matches can carry on, so the worst that can happen is a player going back-to-back in successive long matches (has to be partly their own doing). These players will have to play out their round Friday night. That is very reasonable to ask -- everyone has to finish at least two matches that first day!!

2nd Day The tournament is now down to 8-12 tables at the most for the rest of the tournament, so from Round 3 on, it makes no difference whatsoever whether we are in a room with less than 16 tables or more. Saturday is likely to be a long day, with 4 rounds, so a preferred start time would be 10 AM.

Round 3: 8 players that won their one-loss match vs the 8 that lost their second round winner side match play 8 matches.

Round 4: 8 winner side players play 4 matches, starting as soon as tables from the one-loss round become available. As tables continue to become available, the 8 players in the one-loss side that won in Round 3 play their 4 matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes.

Round 5: The 4 players that won their one-loss match vs the 4 that lost their winner side match play their 4 matches. These matches start as soon as tables and players become available.

Round 6: The 4 players that advanced on the winner side play two matches, at the same time the 4 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their two matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The two losers in the one-loss side finish in 7th/8th place.

Sunday final day

Round 7: The 4 remaining players in the one-loss side play their 2 matches, with the losers finishing in 5th/6th place.

Round 8: The 2 players that advanced on the winner side play their match for the hot seat, at the same time the 2 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their match. Since these two matches play simultaneously, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The loser on the one-loss side finishes 3rd in the tournament.

Round 9: Finals single race, winner of the hot seat gets the first break.

I would make all winner side matches a race to 3, and the default for the one-loss also races to 3, but if any section of the one-loss side is behind schedule on Saturday, those matches in that section could be races to 2 until the chart is back on schedule. Or you could simply make Rounds 3-4-5 only on Saturday races to 2 on the one-loss side. Saturday is the only problem day in this schedule. Round 6 on the one-loss side determines 7th/8th place so it would be nice to make it a race to 3 -- and it would be the last two matches Saturday night, so just let them play it out. Sunday is only 3 rounds so I don't think you would need to go to any races to 2 for the Sunday matches. Likewise, I see no need for races to 2 on Friday with 32 players -- just let them play it out Friday night!

We have yet to play according to this schedule, we kind of intended last time, but didn't stick to it because of the host room preference not to eliminate players Friday night. That is impossible in our group in a double elimination format if you ask me lol.

Opinions?
For anything more than 32 players, you are going to have to start earlier Friday (or Thursday if necessary) and get down to the same equivalent to what I called Round 3 for Saturday AM. To squeeze more rounds in that first day, I would also suggest more races to 2 on the one loss side -- again, trying to stay with races to 3 in the final rounds and maybe also the very first one-loss round (in deference to the 2 and out players), but it might mean some late matches Friday night, because you HAVE TO GET DOWN to your last round of 16 players on the one-loss side for Saturday morning in my opinion.
__________________
"One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
-- Strawberry Brooks
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:19 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: monett missouri
Posts: 7,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
One of the many, many problems I see with the RR is if you do have slow players you actually guarantee them more games so you could make it even worse..lol.
Many? What else?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I strongly favor RR.

(The RR format most talked about would guarantee everyone 14 games and -- as far as I can tell -- take no longer. That looks a lot better to me than 5.)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:55 PM
Scrzbill Scrzbill is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Eagles Rest, Wa
Posts: 3,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSJohn View Post
Many? What else?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I strongly favor RR.

(The RR format most talked about would guarantee everyone 14 games and -- as far as I can tell -- take no longer. That looks a lot better to me than 5.)
Everyone playing 14 games? Unless you use the Kentucky rule, where after two hours, everything behind the line spots, I donít see matches going any faster. For the seniors event, if we had played any matches Thursday night, we could have had 4 for the final day. Myself, to have four for the final day would be my goal. Three, three. For arguments sake, for the members tournament. Start 9am Friday morning, play as many rounds as possible until 12 midnight. Saturday, the same. Same as the DCC. You start early and play late. Sunday, all the rail birds should be happy.
__________________
Coyotes, Eagles, and Deer, oh my!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:06 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is offline
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: monett missouri
Posts: 7,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrzbill View Post
Everyone playing 14 games? Unless you use the Kentucky rule, where after two hours, everything behind the line spots, I donít see matches going any faster. For the seniors event, if we had played any matches Thursday night, we could have had 4 for the final day. Myself, to have four for the final day would be my goal. Three, three. For arguments sake, for the members tournament. Start 9am Friday morning, play as many rounds as possible until 12 midnight. Saturday, the same. Same as the DCC. You start early and play late. Sunday, all the rail birds should be happy.
I'm OK with that, but the virtue of RR is that all the tables are in use all the time, and, you don't have to wait for rounds, you can play anyone in your group that you haven't played yet. It eliminates most of the down time between matches, and the empty table syndrome in the later rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-03-2018, 06:37 PM
crabbcatjohn crabbcatjohn is online now
Verified Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Benton, Ky.
Posts: 2,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
First day with 32 players
Round 1: 32 players 16 matches (played on 16 tables)

Round 2: 16 winners to be played simultaneously with
16 one-loss players (total of 16 played on 16 tables)

First day with less than 16 tables, has to start early -- like noon -- because the above two rounds now become essentially four rounds, but no one is ever waiting for more than one match to finish so their second match can begin. With a noon start, taking advantage of open tables, other matches can carry on, so the worst that can happen is a player going back-to-back in successive long matches (has to be partly their own doing). These players will have to play out their round Friday night. That is very reasonable to ask -- everyone has to finish at least two matches that first day!!

2nd Day The tournament is now down to 8-12 tables at the most for the rest of the tournament, so from Round 3 on, it makes no difference whatsoever whether we are in a room with less than 16 tables or more. Saturday is likely to be a long day, with 4 rounds, so a preferred start time would be 10 AM.

Round 3: 8 players that won their one-loss match vs the 8 that lost their second round winner side match play 8 matches.

Round 4: 8 winner side players play 4 matches, starting as soon as tables from the one-loss round become available. As tables continue to become available, the 8 players in the one-loss side that won in Round 3 play their 4 matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes.

Round 5: The 4 players that won their one-loss match vs the 4 that lost their winner side match play their 4 matches. These matches start as soon as tables and players become available.

Round 6: The 4 players that advanced on the winner side play two matches, at the same time the 4 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their two matches. Since these matches play simultaneously with the winner side matches, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The two losers in the one-loss side finish in 7th/8th place.

Sunday final day

Round 7: The 4 remaining players in the one-loss side play their 2 matches, with the losers finishing in 5th/6th place.

Round 8: The 2 players that advanced on the winner side play their match for the hot seat, at the same time the 2 players that advanced in the one-loss side play their match. Since these two matches play simultaneously, it amounts to one round for timing purposes. The loser on the one-loss side finishes 3rd in the tournament.

Round 9: Finals single race, winner of the hot seat gets the first break.

I would make all winner side matches a race to 3, and the default for the one-loss also races to 3, but if any section of the one-loss side is behind schedule on Saturday, those matches in that section could be races to 2 until the chart is back on schedule. Or you could simply make Rounds 3-4-5 only on Saturday races to 2 on the one-loss side. Saturday is the only problem day in this schedule. Round 6 on the one-loss side determines 7th/8th place so it would be nice to make it a race to 3 -- and it would be the last two matches Saturday night, so just let them play it out. Sunday is only 3 rounds so I don't think you would need to go to any races to 2 for the Sunday matches. Likewise, I see no need for races to 2 on Friday with 32 players -- just let them play it out Friday night!

We have yet to play according to this schedule, we kind of intended last time, but didn't stick to it because of the host room preference not to eliminate players Friday night. That is impossible in our group in a double elimination format if you ask me lol.

Opinions?
Thanks for taking the time to do the scheduling. The only thing you might want to tweak is there are 10 rounds, not 9...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:27 PM
NH Steve's Avatar
NH Steve NH Steve is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 8,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
Thanks for taking the time to do the scheduling. The only thing you might want to tweak is there are 10 rounds, not 9...
Wouldn't surprise me lol, but what round did I miss??? There are a few that I piggy backed cuz winners and losers can play at the same time....
__________________
"One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
-- Strawberry Brooks
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All original content Copyright Onepocket.org and/or the original author. All rights reserved.