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Old 08-05-2008, 01:02 PM
Grady Grady is offline
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I don't recall the years well any more but I do have interesting recollections from decades past. I remember playing Freddie, Mexican Johnny, Canadian Pete and whoever else wanted to play, downstairs at Benzingers, at Diversy and Clark. I didn't play Bugs and Artie because they weren't there. Artie, of course, bought the place but I'm not sure when. I'm sure Freddie can fill us in on that and when Artie moved to Vegas. Would I have beaten either one of them then? Probably not. I didn't play my best One Pocket until the late
70's.
In fairness to Artie, playing me at Cochran's on the much ballyhooed 5' X 10'
"Big Bertha" was akin to me trying to play him in the dank air and musty netherworld of Benzingers. I mean, all champions got beat there. I survived but left wounded.
At Freddie's place he had that was at ground level, I beat Cole Dixon playing 9 Ball but only after he had been up for two days playing poker. Back then, 9 Ball players gave Cole a wide berth.
Upstairs at Freddie's other place is where I played Artie. The table was perfect for old school One Pocket players like me and Artie. I didn't think it was a home field advantage at all for Artie. We were playing four ahead for $4,000 each and as Freddie said Monroe Brock and TR McIntosh were staking me.
It was a brutal match. I got three games down and five balls to I owed three in the hill game. Somehow I came back and won, after two and a half days.
I have also played Jack many times, some of the matches being fairly long. In fairness to him, he loved playing good players. The reason he had such a hard time with them is that he was so used to stealing that he couldn't really take the heat against top flight competition.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:51 PM
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SJDinPHX SJDinPHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady
I don't recall the years well any more but I do have interesting recollections from decades past. I remember playing Freddie, Mexican Johnny, Canadian Pete and whoever else wanted to play, downstairs at Benzingers, at Diversy and Clark. I didn't play Bugs and Artie because they weren't there. Artie, of course, bought the place but I'm not sure when. I'm sure Freddie can fill us in on that and when Artie moved to Vegas. Would I have beaten either one of them then? Probably not. I didn't play my best One Pocket until the late
70's.
In fairness to Artie, playing me at Cochran's on the much ballyhooed 5' X 10'
"Big Bertha" was akin to me trying to play him in the dank air and musty netherworld of Benzingers. I mean, all champions got beat there. I survived but left wounded.
At Freddie's place he had that was at ground level, I beat Cole Dixon playing 9 Ball but only after he had been up for two days playing poker. Back then, 9 Ball players gave Cole a wide berth.
Upstairs at Freddie's other place is where I played Artie. The table was perfect for old school One Pocket players like me and Artie. I didn't think it was a home field advantage at all for Artie. We were playing four ahead for $4,000 each and as Freddie said Monroe Brock and TR McIntosh were staking me.
It was a brutal match. I got three games down and five balls to I owed three in the hill game. Somehow I came back and won, after two and a half days.
I have also played Jack many times, some of the matches being fairly long. In fairness to him, he loved playing good players. The reason he had such a hard time with them is that he was so used to stealing that he couldn't really take the heat against top flight competition.
Grady,

I think you may have made a good observation on Jack's game. However, if he hung around long enough, to adjust to the competition and the equipment, he could come with a pretty strong game. I agree his preference was stealing, which, by the way as you know, he did quite well.

Dick
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:35 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady
I don't recall the years well any more but I do have interesting recollections from decades past. I remember playing Freddie, Mexican Johnny, Canadian Pete and whoever else wanted to play, downstairs at Benzingers, at Diversy and Clark. I didn't play Bugs and Artie because they weren't there. Artie, of course, bought the place but I'm not sure when. I'm sure Freddie can fill us in on that and when Artie moved to Vegas. Would I have beaten either one of them then? Probably not. I didn't play my best One Pocket until the late
70's.
In fairness to Artie, playing me at Cochran's on the much ballyhooed 5' X 10'
"Big Bertha" was akin to me trying to play him in the dank air and musty netherworld of Benzingers. I mean, all champions got beat there. I survived but left wounded.
At Freddie's place he had that was at ground level, I beat Cole Dixon playing 9 Ball but only after he had been up for two days playing poker. Back then, 9 Ball players gave Cole a wide berth.
Upstairs at Freddie's other place is where I played Artie. The table was perfect for old school One Pocket players like me and Artie. I didn't think it was a home field advantage at all for Artie. We were playing four ahead for $4,000 each and as Freddie said Monroe Brock and TR McIntosh were staking me.
It was a brutal match. I got three games down and five balls to I owed three in the hill game. Somehow I came back and won, after two and a half days.
I have also played Jack many times, some of the matches being fairly long. In fairness to him, he loved playing good players. The reason he had such a hard time with them is that he was so used to stealing that he couldn't really take the heat against top flight competition.

Grady, I've been arguing with Artie about your match with him for the last few years. I remember the match exactly as you described it. 4 ahead (I thought it might have been 5 ahead) and it took a couple of days. I remember a 400+lb TR Macintosh nodding out and collapsing the chair from under him. Artie swears you guys played for $500 a game, not a freezeout, and only played about 5 hrs. I could probably beat him out of a good bet if I could prove our case. I would love to get TR to confirm the story. Monroe is in the ground, so that's out. Race Track Phil only remembers that it took a long time, no other details.

"Dank air and musty netherworld," was a fabulous description of Bensingers. Your analogies deserve a book of their own.
To get a young hotshot to play me down there I offered him 9 to 6 if he would play me at Bensingers. The right game was probably 10 to 8. He couldnt pass it up and came down into the basement. My advantages were many, we played on a 5x10, and naturally the A/C wasnt working and the oxygen level was very low. he started out like a wild man, but after about 20minutes he began to sit down between every shot. I was used to the fetid air and I knew time was on my side. I had to giggle to myself when I looked over at the kid and seen his face had taken on a blank stare. He stayed with it until he was broke, but never, ever came down there again.


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Old 08-11-2008, 11:39 AM
Grady Grady is offline
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I spoke with TR a couple of months ago. Here's his number: 813-986-8814
I know he'd love to hear from you. I was surprised to hear that he was still alive because of the weight problem. He sounded hale and hearty.
I'm positive it was four ahead.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:06 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady
I spoke with TR a couple of months ago. Here's his number: 813-986-8814
I know he'd love to hear from you. I was surprised to hear that he was still alive because of the weight problem. He sounded hale and hearty.
I'm positive it was four ahead.
Thanks Grady, I'll call TR and get his confirmation so I can bust Arties balls. I love Artie, but I also loved insulting, abusing, biting, and once in a while beating him. In Bensingers we played often for 3 or $5 a game, he won about 80% of the time but even for those small amounts we played for blood. The upside of those wars was we both stayed in top shape in case anybody happened to drop in looking to play. After battling with Artie most anybody else looked like a xmas goose.

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Old 08-12-2008, 10:22 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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"Dank air and musty netherworld," was a fabulous description of Bensingers. Grady, your analogies deserve a book of their own.
To get a young hotshot to play me down there I offered him 9 to 6 if he would play me at Bensingers. The right game was probably 10 to 8. He couldnt pass it up and came down into the basement. My advantages were many, we played on a 5x10, and naturally the A/C wasnt working and the oxygen level was very low. he started out like a wild man, but after about 20minutes he began to sit down between every shot. I was used to the fetid air and I knew time was on my side. I had to giggle to myself when I looked over at the kid and seen his face had taken on a blank stare. He stayed with it until he was broke, but never, ever came down there again.


I might as well add a footnote to the above story. The player mentioned above was a nice young man named Barry Kohler. He had a very promising looking career as a poolplayer but he had more heart than grift sense and fell into a lot of traps I set. Since he had just got married these beats discouraged him enough to seek a future elsewhere. He went into real estate, got lucky and made millions. We are still friends, but now he plays pool just for recreation once a week. So who was the sucker?

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Old 08-12-2008, 07:44 PM
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Wasn't it Ronnie Allen that said he wanted to be the 'Sucker'? He said it seems all the 'Suckers" he'd met and played all had MONEY... they all had money!!!
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:18 PM
philip guagliardo philip guagliardo is offline
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The match between Grady & Artie that occurred at The North Shore I'm sorry to say that the only thing that I do remember is that I walked in and it was over and Artie was wolfing to play again tomorrow and for reasons I dont know it didn't happen !!! I dont remember how long they played period because I was probably at the racetrack !! The only thing I do know is Artie wanted to play because he was hot that Grady quit . I think Artie is upset because he doesn't feel like he got beat because coming a game or two ahead doesn't mean you got beat if your opponent quits in my book or his . I know that I have had players quit me winner and never played me again and in my mind they didn't win !! Nick Varner beat Artie the first time they played and if they didn't play again he could say he beat Artie , but they did play again and he lost so bad he never ever considered playing Artie again . I have heard that Grady's backer was the one that pulled up and made Grady quit winner . I dont think Grady would quit winner on anybody , but I have to say Artie was there everyday everynight and willing to play and the game never happened again !! Who was the better player ? I have my opinion and I'm sure Artie & Grady have an opinion . Who's was a better boxer Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano is a good example and all of us boxing fans have an opinion on that match too ! Just my opinion .

Race Track Phil

I do know Artie does not agree about how long they played and for how much .
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:40 PM
Grady Grady is offline
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Default Interesting difference of opinions

Phil, how can winning the agreed upon session of four ahead and calling it a day be called quitting winner? Getting four ahead of Artie wasn't easy and it was very time consuming. It's really funny how people remember things differently. I remember offering to play the next day and betting my own money, if necessary.
Artie was almost superhuman in long matches. I never saw him eat, maybe a hot dog every ten hours or so. He was a slow player, too, which I didn't mind but I felt like he might become a favorite if I continued play that night.
By the way, TR and Monroe weren't the most loose individuals in the world. They staked me because they thought I was the best player in the world.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:31 PM
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I called T.R. yesterday and he confirmed what I thought, and what Grady said. The match was 4 ahead, for either 4 or 5 thou, took 2 or 2 1/2 days, Artie had Grady 3 down and Grady came back and won. T.R. did not like the game because he was amazed that Artie never sat down, or ate, and only pissed maybe once or twice. Artie would not play another set but he did play some more by the game. I think it was $500 a game. Artie won a couple in a row and then T.R. and Monroe pulled up. I could understand why, since T R weighed about 500 lbs and had been in the chair for 2 days. (He did lay down on the bench for awhile during the match) That's the point that probably has Artie confused, because in actuality, even tho he was about 2500 loser he was only a few games down. I'm positive about the length, the result, and the fact that it was a freezeout.

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