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  #101  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:06 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona
Fat's best game was one pocket, when he gambled he played one pocket, when he boasted it was about one pocket. How good was he?? You have to give him the benefit of the doubt, the whole world thought he was the best. Only the top players disagreed, and when it comes down to it, don't you have to side with the world?
I believe in magic, the tooth fairy, and Minnesota Fats
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  #102  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:14 AM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona
I believe in magic, the tooth fairy, and Minnesota Fats

Yep, quoting your own posts. That's how it starts.
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  #103  
Old 11-06-2009, 07:53 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Default Answered 1 and 2, 20 times already

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Originally Posted by lll
would some of you answer question #1 and #2
I have answered "Yes" in English, Chinese, Russian and Gibberish at least 20 times already.

Beard
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  #104  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:43 AM
lll lll is offline
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i realize that freddy just thought this would get to the bottom line
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  #105  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:15 AM
#Cruncher #Cruncher is offline
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Default Who was better?

I'm a litttle confused about Fat's 1 pocket ability in the forties and fifties, not that anyone still alive really knows how well he played. Does anyone (Freddy) know how he stacked up against the likes of "Pony" from Bensingers?
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  #106  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:22 AM
lfigueroa lfigueroa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve
Dick, I don't think the facts bear out your contention that Fats was made a star by the movie. The movie contributed his name, as well as the environment of media hype that fueled the pool boom in the 60's but it was the Johnston City media coverage that "discovered" Fats, and he took it from there. If you are saying Fats would have been nothing without the movie, you would also have to say that pool in general would have been nothing in the 60's without the movie. That would pretty near have to wipe out Johnston City, as well as the whole action boom that swept the country in the 60's -- and out with that would go a certain player from San Jose, who would have found no great action scene to thrive in himself for those years, if not for the movie, and most likely would have gone to a day job a whole lot sooner than he did

An interesting passage -- as I continue picking books off the shelf at random -- from Grady''s "Bet High and Kiss Low"

"A few of the notables I have gambled against and bet my own money: ...San Jose Dick (who liked action so much that he'd sometimes rent tow tables next to each other, and gambled at the same time with two different opponents..."

Lou Figueroa
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  #107  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:29 AM
lfigueroa lfigueroa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona
Was it fast Eddie that said "even if you beat me i'm still the best"

ah yes, one other quote, this one from "Buddy Hall: Rags to Rifleman, Then What?"

"Walter Tevis, the author of The Hustler, told Buddy Hall that he got the idea for the fictitious character 'Fast Eddie Felson,' after watching Eddie Taylor play. Tevis named the main character after Taylor, and Fast Eddie's first hustle is a bet on a tricky bank shot. The drinking lifestyle, the great shooting, were obviously fashioned after the one and only, ORIGINAL Fast Eddie -- Eddie Taylor. Walter Tevis himself said so."

I don't know how I missed that the first read. And in a way, it makes a lot of sense.

Lou Figueroa
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  #108  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:47 PM
jay helfert jay helfert is offline
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Sorry to join the party so late, but I got here before it was over anyway. I knew both Fats and Tevis very well. They were both great for pool in their own way. Tevis wrote the all time best seller The Hustler, that revitalized pool in the 60's and brought it out of the doldrums of the 50's.

It is true that Fats capitalized on the Minnesota Fats character that Tevis conjured up. But oh how lucky we were that he did! There was never another human being like Fatty, and never will be. He was THE PIED PIPER! People loved him everywhere he went! He was the biggest pool star since Greenleaf in this country, far eclipsing Mosconi in fame. Fats was a household name and recognized by EVERYONE! He was funny as sh-t and pretty damn smart on a variety of subjects, with his down home logic. Even Mohammed Ali said Fats was The Greatest!

I don't care if he could make a ball or not. The man did more for pool than anyone else of his generation and it isn't even close! By the way, he could play too! Don't ever think for a minute that Fats wasn't a real pool hustler, because he was. And a damn good one even after he became famous. I was there to witness some of his big scores, like when he robbed hot shooting Richie Florence out of over 25K playing One Hole getting 8-7. Freddie knows how good Fats banked. Very few players could ever bank a ball back into their hole from the second diamond (with the cue ball buried near his own pocket) as good as Fats. And go three rails for shape and run out! HELLO! I saw it, more than once!

No, he couldn't beat the top One Pocket players of his era even, but he robbed them all if they gave him weight. He was smarter than any of them when it came to matching up. And that's what One Pocket is all about anyway!

Last edited by jay helfert; 11-06-2009 at 01:02 PM.
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  #109  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Deeman Deeman is offline
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Jay,

I think the only people to have a beef with fats on his claims of being the best would be the few who could actually beat him at the game. As you said, he was great for the game and if some of the, perhaps, better players of his day had had the outstanding personality he possessed, along with the ability to entertain, they would have been able to challenge his role as the most famous. Not too many could hold a candle to his storytelling, in pool and outside pool.

I remember Danny D. being insensed that Fat's could get away with his claims but, in truth, the audiences watching the others play were far bigger because of Fat's entertainment value.

To be successful, you use what God gave you, be it mouth, cue or bravado
and it seems he had pleanty of all three!

DeeMan
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  #110  
Old 11-06-2009, 03:07 PM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Default Fats and Pony

Quote:
Originally Posted by #Cruncher
I'm a litttle confused about Fat's 1 pocket ability in the forties and fifties, not that anyone still alive really knows how well he played. Does anyone (Freddy) know how he stacked up against the likes of "Pony" from Bensingers?
I shall repeat this post I just made from, Fats and Chicago, post #4.


"Fats pulled this hustle in Bensingers in the 40s. Chicago Pony Rosen was probably the best onepocket player in Bensingers at that time. He usually played very cheap, but everybody loved to bet on him and his games, because he had a reputation for never doing business. Fats was playing Pony 8 to 7 for $10 a game. Unlike what some people think, Fats had a very big reputation and everybody wanted to bet on Fats. So Fats had his cohorts stationed in the poolroom, and they were all betting on Pony. Fats sluffed off all the $10 games to an unwitting Pony and his partners were collecting $200-300 a game on the side. Nobody woke up, and Fats made a nice score. Pony was tickled as he made $80 or $100 at the $10 level. Pony woke to it later, and loved to tell the story. "He kept leaving me banks." Pony said. "I couldnt understand it. In those days if I got a shot I was gone."

Beard

I had made a video of this match to prove that it really happened, (that's the kind of evidence I must provide now to be credible), but over the 50 yrs since I heard the story, somehow the video got lost. Sorry.
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