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  #11  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:36 PM
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SJDinPHX SJDinPHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androd
I'm interested in how the man getting spotted can make the better players game 2,3,4 or 4&1/2 balls higher just because the guy getting spotted might take a foul. This is inane, the spot is worth practically nothing. I say again, none of these guys giving 17,18 to 4 and a free scratch, will give him 21,22 or 24 to 4.
Rod.
PS, Where are you Skin ?
I totally agree...The value of one free scratch per game, is almost infetismal, with ANY two players...Let alone a guy getting the kind of weight Dippy is.

I would ten times rather give up one scratch, than 9/8...wouldn't anybody ???
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:40 PM
lll lll is offline
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if you guys remember rod once said the weaker player should never take an intentional scratch
his reasoning was if you are playing 10-4 and as the weaker player you take a scratch now you have to go to 5 . makes your game 25% tougher.
( i hope i remember this right)
using arties logic having a free scratch would be worth 2 1/2 balls (10 divided by 4)
although the scratch would cost only one ball or 25% of what the weaker player has to get
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:46 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artie Bodendorfer
Her is what people didnt no but will no no. I will give up one off my Hustling Secrets. And how its done. Witch I Figured out myself.


8.And if a player is playing another player 8 to 4 breack apeace then every scratch the player going too 4 is worth two balls. So too make the scratches fair and equale the rules need too be changed. Because each scratch has a different value and price . According to the spot.
Artie,

You say that if the player going to 4 scratches in this scenario then it's worth two balls. Two balls to which player? Would it be like playing 8-6 or 6-4?

The way I loosely figure it, if the player going to 4 scratches, it's like an 8-5 game now and that's more than two balls.

True enough that each foul has a different value and price though. That's correct.

Dennis
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:49 PM
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androd androd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lll
i
using arties logic having a free scratch would be worth 2 1/2 balls (10 divided by 4)
So the better player would have to make 12 1/2 balls ? I still don't understand this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lll
ialthough the scratch would cost only one ball or 25% of what the weaker player has to get
When his scratch is free he doesn't have to make any more. He can only do this free once.
Rod.
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:49 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX
I would ten times rather give up one scratch, than 9/8...wouldn't anybody ???
....yes....
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:50 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androd
So the better player would have to make 12 1/2 balls ? I still don't understand this.
Rod.
Just let him try and make a half-ball, I'll rob him blind .
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2010, 11:34 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Post I don't think so

Let me start out first by saying that Dippie doesn't get all the breaks, the game was 18 to 4 and a free scratch that had to be called before the scratch was taken. I believe that the break whether it be all the time or rotate the break will not change the value of the free scratch. I also believe that you cannot figure mathematically what the free scratch is worth. I'm sorry Artie but the free scratch in terms of how it's designed to give a player an edge is not worth 4 1/2 balls in this situation. I will give you an example.

If Gabe doesn't give Dippie the free scratch your saying that it's worth 4 1/2 balls more for Gabe to pocket opposed to giving the free scrach? So an even game without the free scratch would then be 22 1/2 to 4 I don't think so.

How about if Gabe gave Dippie 3 free scratches each worth 4 1/2 balls for a total of 13 1/2 balls off the spot of 22 1/2 to 4 which would bring the spot down to 9 to 4. I don't think so.

Well if Gabe gave Dippie 4 free scratches each worth 4 1/2 balls each for a total of 18 balls then he would only have to give Dippie 4 1/2 to 4. I don't think so.

There isn't a mathematical solution to this spot, you must play out the games and keep track of games won in differen't scenarios in order to place a value on the free scratch the way it's designed.

Trust me, i'm a doctor

Billy I.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2010, 11:48 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androd
This is inane, the spot is worth practically nothing. I say again, none of these guys giving 17,18 to 4 and a free scratch, will give him 21,22 or 24 to 4.
Rod.
PS, Where are you Skin ?
Whaddaya mean "where are you Skin?". I pretty much wrote this early this morning before I went to work .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis
I don't think the "one foul don't count" helps him all that much whether he has to call it first or not. Dave looks like he knows how to move and what to shoot, from the one clip I saw of him. I suppose in a tough spot the foul could come in handy but to place a value on it before the game starts, I would say maybe 1/2 a ball per game for a long session.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2010, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona
There isn't a mathematical solution to this spot, you must play out the games and keep track of games won in differen't scenarios in order to place a value on the free scratch the way it's designed.

Billy I.
This point has been overlooked.

RBL (trust me, I'm a cowboy)
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2010, 12:19 AM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuesmith
Dennis, yes I understand that but I feel that the possibility of using an intentional to your advantage would still have to be a factor in considering the value of the spot. If I were getting a free scratch, I'd be looking for opportunities to use an intentional at all times. It can be a very strong move! I feel that it should be at least as valuable as the break, before the balls are broke, afterwards depending on the layout, could be much more! JMHO

Sherm

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona
I also believe that you cannot figure mathematically what the free scratch is worth.
Billy I.

All of this said by Sherm and Billy is so obviously true, that it's ridiculous to think any differently...

The scratch can be worth anywhere from 0, to many balls - this result being completely changeable from rack to rack...here's just one example...

You're playing a guy 8 to 8, but you get a scratch - It's the 4th inning of the game, 0 to 0 - You use your scratch to put your opponent in a bad trap - He tries to get out of it and sells out - You run 8 and out....How much was that scratch just worth to you that game?....

- Ghost
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