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Old 09-25-2014, 11:53 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Default Why can't we shoot balls in the kitchen?

I think this is a good rule. I know there are rules that span across many games, this may be one, but if I had to guess, maybe the rule was created so people could not wedge the cb in between the head rail and a potentially shoot able ball after a scratch. That would be an awkward shot always coming up if the rule was not "shoot balls outside the kitchen".

I do know many will cry bloody murder when they hear this, but why not just make the legal, shoot able balls the ones from the first diamond up in our proposed express one pocket variation? So you'd still have to put the cb behind the headstring on a scratch, but now you can shoot at balls that are "above" the first diamond, as opposed to the traditional second diamond/head string.

In my eyes, this would not really degrade integrity of play too much. It retains the real reason that I feel shooting out of the kitchen is a good rule, which is the player still can't wedge the cb in between the head rail and a very near ob and perhaps shoot an awkward push shot.

More shoot able balls, quicker games, not really destroying any integrity IMO. There is a factor of inconsistency, where we are breaking from behind the head string, then things kinda shift, but we'd get over that if implemented. There also may be a concern with people shooting ob "backwards", but I don't see that as a problem necessarily.

I think it is yet another way to speed up express one pocket, although I realize it wont be popular, but worth thinking about at least. Put it into the ether.

Last edited by tylerdurden; 09-26-2014 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:53 AM
keoneyo keoneyo is offline
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For me there is a clear reason not to. The opponents out ball is hanging in his pocket. You need 2. The other one is on his side of the table 5 inches from the short rail in the kitchen.
Being able to shoot that ball in the kitchen takes away the intentional scratch after pocketing that ball in his hole.
In my opinion this takes away from the game.

Why? In my mind there should be some recourse for failure to pocket the ball.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:14 AM
petie petie is offline
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Why not make it stripes or solids? Why not make it bank all balls? Why not use all the pockets? Why not score by the number on the ball? Why not make everybody play one handed? Why not use a mace instead of a pool cue? Why not play naked? Why have pockets? What would we call this website if we did? Where could I have meaningful discussions about the real One Pocket?
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:06 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keoneyo View Post
For me there is a clear reason not to. The opponents out ball is hanging in his pocket. You need 2. The other one is on his side of the table 5 inches from the short rail in the kitchen.
Being able to shoot that ball in the kitchen takes away the intentional scratch after pocketing that ball in his hole.
In my opinion this takes away from the game.

Why? In my mind there should be some recourse for failure to pocket the ball.
I am pretty sure I see what you are saying. But if that ball just so happened to be outside the headstring, he would not be able to follow it in either. I'm not sure how that differs from what you pose, but maybe I understood it wrong. If it was 5 inches from the short rail you would not be able to shoot it with my rule; I am saying only the top half of the current foul area should be in play for object balls. My title was confusing, that was just a play on how the rule originated, which I'm guessing was people jamming balls in between the head cushion and the ob.

This part is totally subjective, I realize, but I don't think scratches into a pocket are punished nearly enough in one pocket. There is a match with shannon and bugs at the legends on accustats, and I swear no exagerating, I bet shannon scratches 20 times. It could be more, and he wins that match.

Last edited by tylerdurden; 09-26-2014 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:10 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Because all those things would totally obliterate one pocket petie.

Simply being able to shoot object balls in the top half of the kitchen (not the entire kitchen) on a scratch would not change it much at all. It would penalize scratches more, and would speed it up. If you can tell me exactly why that's a bad thing I am all ears.

Last edited by tylerdurden; 09-26-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:33 PM
petie petie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
Because all those things would totally obliterate one pocket petie.

Simply being able to shoot object balls in the top half of the kitchen (not the entire kitchen) on a scratch would not change it much at all. It would penalize scratches more, and would speed it up. If you can tell me exactly why that's a bad thing I am all ears.
Please read Post #11 in the thread "One Pocket Question? Ball on the Break"
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:34 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Default Express One Pocket OB shootable after a scratch

Because the title may have confused things, here's the area I'm talking about being able to shoot an ob from in red, after a scratch of course.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:43 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by petie View Post
Please read Post #11 in the thread "One Pocket Question? Ball on the Break"
You can keep one pocket exactly the way it is.

Much of this was discussed in the other thread, so if you missed it in the post up top, this would be for an express version of one pocket that was being discussed a while back. An express version that may get more tournaments running and more people playing one pocket, even the "real one pocket".
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:46 PM
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sappo sappo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
I think this is a good rule. I know there are rules that span across many games, this may be one, but if I had to guess, maybe the rule was created so people could not wedge the cb in between the head rail and a potentially shoot able ball after a scratch. That would be an awkward shot always coming up if the rule was not "shoot balls outside the kitchen".

I do know many will cry bloody murder when they hear this, but why not just make the legal, shoot able balls the ones from the first diamond up in our proposed express one pocket variation? So you'd still have to put the cb behind the headstring on a scratch, but now you can shoot at balls that are "above" the first diamond, as opposed to the traditional second diamond/head string.

In my eyes, this would not really degrade integrity of play too much. It retains the real reason that I feel shooting out of the kitchen is a good rule, which is the player still can't wedge the cb in between the head rail and a very near ob and perhaps shoot an awkward push shot.

More shoot able balls, quicker games, not really destroying any integrity IMO. There is a factor of inconsistency, where we are breaking from behind the head string, then things kinda shift, but we'd get over that if implemented. There also may be a concern with people shooting ob "backwards", but I don't see that as a problem necessarily.

I think it is yet another way to speed up express one pocket, although I realize it wont be popular, but worth thinking about at least. Put it into the ether.
Tyler, how about in baseball 2 strikes and you're out and 2 outs per inning? how about in football you only get 3 downs not 4, or the clock doesn't stop if a player goes out of bounds or for an incomplete pass. and lets consider 3 periods instead of 4 quarters. how about making the indy 500 the indy 350? boxing, how about reducing the 10 count to a 6 count?i think maybe in tennis you might consider only getting a 1st serve.
my point is every game could be changed but then it wouldn't be the same game.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:20 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by sappo View Post
Tyler, how about in baseball 2 strikes and you're out and 2 outs per inning? how about in football you only get 3 downs not 4, or the clock doesn't stop if a player goes out of bounds or for an incomplete pass. and lets consider 3 periods instead of 4 quarters. how about making the indy 500 the indy 350? boxing, how about reducing the 10 count to a 6 count?i think maybe in tennis you might consider only getting a 1st serve.
my point is every game could be changed but then it wouldn't be the same game.
It would not be the same game. That's correct. As I pointed out in the other thread, every single sport that you can think of today has had major rule changes at some point. Quite extensive ones too. It "was not the same game" when they did it. But they had reasons for doing it; they were smart for doing it. So, every other sport has changed extensively through the years to adapt to fans and new playing conditions. One pocket hasn't. And that doesn't strike people as kind of a big hint?

Again, If anybody wants to point out how the incoming shooter on a foul is able to shoot balls from the top half of the kitchen somehow destroys one pocket, I am all ears. It just puts twice the number of balls in the kitchen in play, would speed the games, and punishes scratches more.

I'm getting over this, to the content of all I'm sure, but I will (try to) end on one final note. What is the biggest blunder in pocket billiards? The worst thing you can possibly do?

A scratch into a pocket is pretty much the ultimate bad shot in pocket billiards.

Yet, in one pocket, a scratch can actually be a good thing for the fouler. The worst blunder in pool is "the tactical move to go for, the thing to do". Consider the analogies here, as you brought up baseball, what if 3 strikes and the guy gets to walk to first. What if a guy drops the fly ball and we called 2 outs. That would just be stupid right? Well, in one pocket we have a rule where you make the biggest blunder there is, and get rewarded. People actually tactically go for the worst shot in pool. This strikes nobody else as nonsensical but me?

I have never heard a single player my entire life ask "why is a scratch into a pocket a good thing to do at times in one pocket, why is the worst control shot you could possibly imagine a good shot in one pocket that benefits the fouler?"

Anyway, all I can say is all the rule changes I've proposed would speed up the game, they would not change the play too much imo. I have actually tried many of them and they aren't overbearing at all. It is still one pocket, the best player still wins, the games just go by a faster.

We all have choices, our choice is to stick with our original rules without even a single change, while every other sports somehow miraculously changes theirs for the better without the sky falling in (quite the opposite actually). It is all part of the "charm" of one pocket I suppose.
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