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  #51  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:02 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Bill,

There isn't any bankpool player that's going to make 3 straight-backs in a row from this position if I leave a straight-back on the 4 if I miss, so you may as well forget that idea right now.

You can't always get a free shot playing banks, sometimes you have to leave a shot if you miss. Sooner or later you must shoot at something. I'm 2-railing the 4. How hard is it to see? You can win with this shot but not lose, it's that simple.

This is my last reply in this thread.

Dennis
Since you're not going to post in the thread anymore I can say what I feel without running the risk of a Cowboy attack.

Your statement leads me to believe you haven't played champions that much, they have a way of punishing those who take them lightly. As far as being able to win shooting a shot without the fear of losing is not a good enough reason to shoot a shot, there's much more that's involved when choosing an option. But you do have a point, it just shouldn't apply to all situations.

Dr. Bill
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  #52  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:26 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
My bad, I have the foot and head ends of the table reversed. I thought the 9 ball was hanging at the foot end of the table.

My mistake doesn't change my mind about playing off the 8 ball, That doesnt change my mind about that shot (8 ball roll safety) still being a stiff either. Your rationale that it can only be banked easily in one pocket (the side) is misguided. The important factor is just how easy a shot it is once you are able to get to it! And how easy it would be to play position on other shots once you do get to it! And it is easily gotten to since it is on about the 50 yd line (almost in the middle of the table). It could be reached easily position wise, after you make a bank on either side of the table. Concluding, you have totally ignored my sage advice about the necessity to do something with the Most Dangerous Ball, the 4 ball. ....but now the shot that LVC shot isn't as good of an option as I thought.

Incidentally, after you pocket the 3 ball and go down table toward the 9 ball, had you positioned the 8 ball under the 7 ball (my option) you wouldn't have to worry about making the 9 ball.

Dr. Bill
Now who is the one that is getting a little senile? Apparently you have both players wanting to play the same shots?????
The player that you wanted to tie the 7 and 8 up with was the guy that had the 4 zip lead. ( that's right "meatball breath" the player with the lead should look to tie balls up, especially when he's confronted with a situation that allows him to do it for free) whe guy that I want to pocket the 3 and go back down table is the guy that is BEHIND 4 zip. (Tying up the 7 and 8 makes it very easy incidentally, for the behind player to knock off the 9 ball, put it back in play and suffer little consequences) That is another key point as to why the player with the 4 zip lead would not want to tie up the 7 and 8. ( you actually used my reasoning about why I felt is was wrong for you to Z-bank the 4 ball because then you make it easy for the player that's behind to be able to pocket the 3 ball. Now I know you're paying attention to what i'm saying and how I think. But imo it's more than a fair trade off for LVC he can afford to make it easier for the 9 ball to be pocketed because the position now becomes easier to defend for the player with the lead.)


Beard

One other factor that I just realized as to why the 4 ball is so dangerous, and that is the amount of table space that will be unavailable to you when you are trying not to leave the 4 ball cross side on a future safety. A good 3/4's of the foot end of the table would allow a cross side make of the 4 ball.[/QUOTE] ( Doesn't that apply to both players? And I would assume that the player that it would affect the most would be the player that's behind. Another reason not to move the 4 ball.)


When I come to Chicago, and after I give the Ghost his lesson i'll be more than glad to stop over the house for some "meatballs" and give you a little lesson for your hospitality.

Dr. Bill
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  #53  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:38 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Now who is the one that is getting a little senile? Apparently you have both players wanting to play the same shots?????
The player that you wanted to tie the 7 and 8 up with was the guy that had the 4 zip lead. ( that's right "meatball breath" the player with the lead should look to tie balls up, especially when he's confronted with a situation that allows him to do it for free) whe guy that I want to pocket the 3 and go back down table is the guy that is BEHIND 4 zip. (Tying up the 7 and 8 makes it very easy incidentally, for the behind player to knock off the 9 ball, put it back in play and suffer little consequences) That is another key point as to why the player with the 4 zip lead would not want to tie up the 7 and 8. ( you actually used my reasoning about why I felt is was wrong for you to Z-bank the 4 ball because then you make it easy for the player that's behind to be able to pocket the 3 ball. Now I know you're paying attention to what i'm saying and how I think. But imo it's more than a fair trade off for LVC he can afford to make it easier for the 9 ball to be pocketed because the position now becomes easier to defend for the player with the lead.)


Beard

One other factor that I just realized as to why the 4 ball is so dangerous, and that is the amount of table space that will be unavailable to you when you are trying not to leave the 4 ball cross side on a future safety. A good 3/4's of the foot end of the table would allow a cross side make of the 4 ball.
( Doesn't that apply to both players? And I would assume that the player that it would affect the most would be the player that's behind. Another reason not to move the 4 ball.)


When I come to Chicago, and after I give the Ghost his lesson i'll be more than glad to stop over the house for some "meatballs" and give you a little lesson for your hospitality.

Dr. Bill[/QUOTE]

Another very note worthy point that I would like to share with our viewers is..If the 4 ball is a ball that the player with the lead should want to move, and may have a problem moving it for what ever reason. He should without hesitation look to do something simple and effective (like rolling the 8 ball under the 7 ball) especially if it's free to do. After this option is executed he will have bought some time to deal with the 4 ball later on in a more appealing situation. Plus he has tied up balls that were positioned in a potentially threatening position. Any one that can rebut this logic is hard to bet on.

Dr. Bill

Last edited by wincardona; 07-09-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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  #54  
Old 07-09-2012, 08:40 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Since I have as much chance penetrating that slate skull as a BB against a bulletproof vest, I have a new idea.

I would love to put two good bankers together who play even, and then have Billy and I coach each of them. How does that sound? The Vegas line would make my player at least a 2 1/2 to 1 fav.
That would eliminate all this conjecture.

Beard

The old, smart Billy would have probably staked me against himself.
However,I would probably have to switch backers. I might go with Fatboy or Harry Platis.
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  #55  
Old 07-09-2012, 01:51 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
Since I have as much chance penetrating that slate skull as a BB against a bulletproof vest, I have a new idea.

I would love to put two good bankers together who play even, and then have Billy and I coach each of them. How does that sound? The Vegas line would make my player at least a 2 1/2 to 1 fav.
That would eliminate all this conjecture.

Beard

The old, smart Billy would have probably staked me against himself.
However,I would probably have to switch backers. I might go with Fatboy or Harry Platis.
Since I believe that my ideas are better than your ideas why don't we get one impartial player, instead of two different players and we can both coach the same player shooting shots for us. That way after there's a winner, the loser can't say "so what, you had the best player" We can not only do that playing bank pool but one pocket as well. Then win or lose we can both sit down and enjoy some home made spaghetti cooked by you. At least i'll enjoy it.

Dr. Bill
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  #56  
Old 07-09-2012, 02:02 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Since we're both going to be in Tunica why don't we do it there? I'll offer a player $200 to play a race to three against himself with both you and I coaching every other shot. Maybe Richie Richeson.(banks or one pocket)
Then i'll offer another player $200 to do the same thing playing the other game. Will say that Richie plays the banks, then the next chosen player will play the one pocket, maybe Danny Smith.

Or we can do it your way and we'll pick two players and stake them for $300 in a race to 3 playing both banks and one pocket, hows that? You should like that since the VEGAS line will have you at over a 2/1 favorite.

Patiently waiting for your reply.

Your favorite doctor.

Dr. Bill
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  #57  
Old 07-09-2012, 02:15 PM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Since I believe that my ideas are better than your ideas why don't we get one impartial player, instead of two different players and we can both coach the same player shooting shots for us. That way after there's a winner, the loser can't say "so what, you had the best player" We can not only do that playing bank pool but one pocket as well. Then win or lose we can both sit down and enjoy some home made spaghetti cooked by you. At least i'll enjoy it.

Dr. Bill
No one pocket. I am stealing in the banks. I only have a small edge in one pocket.

Beard
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  #58  
Old 07-09-2012, 02:24 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
No one pocket. I am stealing in the banks. I only have a small edge in one pocket.

Beard
Have you ever been into the depths of the deepest forest? In case you have and you've forgotten the way i'll be more than glad to show you how to go there.

Dr. Bill

Last edited by wincardona; 07-09-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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