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  #21  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:05 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
Right, I think one good way to put it is.... for max throw on full hits spin needs to be used to get max english on the ob (john mentioned when the cb stops dead is the most transfer he sees), yet on half ball hits i think the cling using center is the best way to get the max spin on the ob.
Probably doesn't mean much but I would call it "max turn" instead of "max spin" If that makes since or helps you any.Ya'll are doin good! Keep it up.
I'm taking notes ya know.John B.
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2012, 12:19 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
Probably doesn't mean much but I would call it "max turn" instead of "max spin" If that makes since or helps you any.Ya'll are doin good! Keep it up.
I'm taking notes ya know.John B.
Ha! Thanks for dropping by John! Max turn it is.

I got a chance to play a little with that max turn with a "stopping dead" cb today... very good stuff... thanks again for all the tips.

Regards.
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
Probably doesn't mean much but I would call it "max turn" instead of "max spin" If that makes since or helps you any.Ya'll are doin good! Keep it up.
I'm taking notes ya know.John B.
Can I get a look at your notes when your done???

Always appreciate your input buddy,

Dud
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2012, 10:28 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Can I get a look at your notes when your done???

Always appreciate your input buddy,

Dud
I agree. We need to archive those notes and put them in the Smithsonian or something
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2014, 03:38 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
Tyler,


There is a perfect amount of spin to achieve max throw. Obviously the thicker the hit the more spin you need to throw the ball.
Using the gear explanation when cutting the ball the gear is already turning so if there is a maximum amount of speed that the gear can grab and make maximum throw you would need less and less english the more you cut the ball. (based on your testing this seems like up to a half ball)

This might be just repeating what you have said but I thought this might add something to the conversation.

I am not as knowledgeable as most here on this forum, but I do know a little.

Dud
I just went through and reread this, and I 100% agree with you Dud. At the time, I did not have this fully clear in my head, and as you mentioned previously, I think when I did that experiment (I have never repeated it), I was using quite a bit of inside.

Now, my personal opinion is as you say, max spin with a tad of inside..... center ball will also give you a bunch however.
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  #26  
Old 03-26-2014, 04:13 PM
straightback straightback is offline
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Default Turn, turn, turn

If it were me, I'd work with center ball only. There are a few cutesy shots where you can load the ball with inside to give the object ball even more turn, but they are typically restricted to where the object ball is on a rail and the CB is very close.

I say this for a couple reasons - for 1/2 ball hits, you're already getting a sh*tload of turn anyhow. Second, the marginal amount of extra turn you get is somewhat negated by having to calculate the deflection that accompanys the inside English. Third, English transfer (aka the gear effect) is much less with inside English than it is with outside English. Finally, if it was good enough for Eddie Taylor, it's good enough for me.
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2014, 01:46 AM
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If it were me, I'd work with center ball only. There are a few cutesy shots where you can load the ball with inside to give the object ball even more turn, but they are typically restricted to where the object ball is on a rail and the CB is very close.

I say this for a couple reasons - for 1/2 ball hits, you're already getting a sh*tload of turn anyhow. Second, the marginal amount of extra turn you get is somewhat negated by having to calculate the deflection that accompanys the inside English. Third, English transfer (aka the gear effect) is much less with inside English than it is with outside English. Finally, if it was good enough for Eddie Taylor, it's good enough for me.
I definitely agree with most everything you said. It is poor of me to speak in absolutes though, because there are so many different cut angles, and differing amount of induced turn will change depending on those angles.

Videos are better..... in relation to what you were saying above, here is an example where I think (or maybe I should say John thinks) a hair of inside will get you more than just center. As I said, my bad for talking in absolutes before. I do like to work with centerball too, because it stiffens balls at pretty much the max, yet your accuracy is so mush better. But, as you know, when the cut angle is a little more straight as in the vid, a tad of spin will be necessary. All other cases, center ball is def a players best friend.

Anyway, here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1cRe9nL2rk

Here is another good one where John talks about what he is using on each bank. I would love to get him to expand on his comment about "not liking to use draw" on his banks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCLxeQjwBPE

Last edited by tylerdurden; 03-27-2014 at 01:55 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-27-2014, 05:23 AM
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Dudley Dudley is offline
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Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
I just went through and reread this, and I 100% agree with you Dud. At the time, I did not have this fully clear in my head, and as you mentioned previously, I think when I did that experiment (I have never repeated it), I was using quite a bit of inside.

Now, my personal opinion is as you say, max spin with a tad of inside..... center ball will also give you a bunch however.
I am rereading this as the thread is active again... While I know what I meant to say it's really unclear from the text.

There are many different cut angles and lots going on with different banks.

Between the beards vids and books and Brumbacks DVD I've learned a bunch since this thread.

It's fuzzy to describe certain banks as thin and thick but man depending on how thick or thin you are hitting a bank it makes a big difference how you shoot it. (re choice of english)

Still good stuff in this thread though.

Dudley
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  #29  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:31 AM
straightback straightback is offline
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Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
I definitely agree with most everything you said. It is poor of me to speak in absolutes though, because there are so many different cut angles, and differing amount of induced turn will change depending on those angles.

Videos are better..... in relation to what you were saying above, here is an example where I think (or maybe I should say John thinks) a hair of inside will get you more than just center. As I said, my bad for talking in absolutes before. I do like to work with centerball too, because it stiffens balls at pretty much the max, yet your accuracy is so mush better. But, as you know, when the cut angle is a little more straight as in the vid, a tad of spin will be necessary. All other cases, center ball is def a players best friend.

Anyway, here is the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1cRe9nL2rk

Here is another good one where John talks about what he is using on each bank. I would love to get him to expand on his comment about "not liking to use draw" on his banks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCLxeQjwBPE
As for draw, there are a few reasons to not use it unnecessarily. First, ANY English tends to decrease accuracy compared to center ball. And second, and this is probably why bankers stay away from it, is that it makes banks run long because of English transfer. I'm sure many will argue that it helps them shorten up a ball but this just isn't the case in reality.
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  #30  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:42 AM
straightback straightback is offline
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Okay, I see the bank you're talking about, more or less the "Grady" bank. That bank can be made with center ball, but because the angle is fairly slight, a whisker of inside spins the ball a touch more. I see what you were getting at originally now. But do be advised, the amount of English transfer you get from inside English is just a fraction of what you get with outside English.
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