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  #21  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:39 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
I must have been playing in a different universe all this time. 9 foot cut shot from frozen on the rail have always seemed to me to be difficult.
There are only about 40 ways the shot can go wrong.
John B, you keep giving shot choices from the point of view of the best bank shot, long range ball maker in the world. And Billy I is looking at things from his 70s persona.

Billy, you keep talking about considering the speed of the player determining the percentage of the shot. I considered myself a pretty good player at one time and I will say, that at no time would I be comfortable shooting at that 7 ball from a frozen point off of the rail and 9 feet away!

Beard

PS Please dont anybody laugh at my choices, like when I said I would take a scratch. That is very disrespectful and you are only highlighting your own ignorance. A really smart guy would pay attention and ask themselves, "Who do I know that knows the bank game, strategy-wise better than the Beard? And what is behind the things he says he would do?"

If you find him, let me know please. I would appreciate putting a name on this "phantom." It sure aint anybody that I have ever been in the Booth with.

I have been giving out gold on this forum and usually getting nothing but shit back for it. Anybody really paying attention to the concepts I have covered has a good chance of raising his game a ball or more -- and that includes good players.

Beard
Fred..forgive me.. for looking at it from a winning or winner's piont of veiw.And thanks for the good coment too..John B.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:01 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Default Maybe I should apologize...

...for not wanting to play,"get it over with pool." My credo is to grit my teeth and make a commitment that, "I aint gonna lose it on this shot, pool."

Beard
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www.bankingwiththebeard.com
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:25 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
...for not wanting to play,"get it over with pool." My credo is to grit my teeth and make a commitment that, "I aint gonna lose it on this shot, pool."

Beard
That's cool Fred.More than one way to skin a stinkin cat. John B.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2012, 11:16 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
...for not wanting to play,"get it over with pool." My credo is to grit my teeth and make a commitment that, "I aint gonna lose it on this shot, pool.

Beard
Fred, you're making this out for people to believe that the shooter is confronted with an impasse. When a player is confronted with a situation where there is nothing within reason to do, then taking a scratch would be a consideration. But to even consider taking a scratch from this position is imo, a form of dogging it. There are four options that I can see that are much better than taking a scratch. Two of the options have already been brought up, but there's two other options that are good options as well..

The best option would be the most popular one, and that is to pocket the 7 ball, either of two ways, straight in, or rail first. The second option would be the one you suggested by going rail first, thinly striking the 7 ball and then going three rails back up table. The third option would be (imo not as good as the other two) to cut the spotted ball into the pocket (to the shooters left) and go two cushions up table with the cue ball. If this option is chosen you must be conscious of the possible scratch, two cushions to the top pocket. Understanding this, you must hit this shot with a softer speed to fall short of the corner pocket. The fourth option is imo a good option, i'll explain. The 6 ball is laying on the angle to shoot it straight in the corner pocket...softly...by slightly favoring the outside of the pocket, hitting the shot in this fashion will reduce the sell out factor. The cue ball will float to the side rail and end up in a safe position. And if you happen to pocket the 6 ball it will be spotted behind the 9 ball with absolutely zero banks available for the shooter.

Taking a scratch is a bad decision, but not as bad as a decision as banking the 9 ball. Your make percentage of banking the 9 ball and pocketing it is very slim, especially with the speed you need to hit it with shooting off the end rail.

You my old friend are a very stubborn one, when the whole room sides against an opinion, no matter who's opinion, I think it's time to turn it loose.

Dr. Bill
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post

You my old friend are a very stubborn one, when the whole room sides against an opinion, no matter who's opinion, I think it's time to turn it loose.

Dr. Bill
i think in my case
when the whole room ignores your opinion....
like hyman roth said
"just let it go".......
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
I must have been playing in a different universe all this time. 9 foot cut shot from frozen on the rail have always seemed to me to be difficult.
There are only about 40 ways the shot can go wrong.
John B, you keep giving shot choices from the point of view of the best bank shot, long range ball maker in the world. And Billy I is looking at things from his 70s persona.


Beard
I am looking at it from the point of view of a goofball who didn't play great but learned how to play from a couple of the best around here. McCue and I played on sight for years, when we weren't playing one-pocket. I played countless "cousins" of a guy who came to the room and I never saw anyone take a foul, that I remember.

As I see it the only thing you gain (with certainty) by taking a foul here would be to put the shot on my back. I can either foul in return or shoot. I would shoot the 7, in which case you are gambling that I make a fatal error and sell something out to you.

If I make an error and sell out a shot then your gamble paid off but you knocked yourself off the hill to get the shot and you aren't guaranteed to get a good shot anyway. There are now two balls on the spot and the 6 blocks one side pocket.

If I execute the shot on the 7 like I should most of the time then you will have knocked yourself off the hill and you are shooting from the endrail and have no good shot with three balls on the spot.

If you take a foul and I foul in return there will be three balls on the spot, you aren't on the hill anymore and it's your shot. What have you gained? With the exception of having given me an opportunity to make a mistake which I realize is sometimes warranted but I don't think it is in this case.

Let's all remember that it's the different opinions and ways of looking at things and presenting these ideas that makes these simple layouts interesting. No need for hurt feelings or "my way or the highway" type thinking. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. It's the differences that I find interesting. Top players having opposing points of view on a shot and stating their reasons is more interesting than all of you agreeing every time I post a layout.

I guess I'd better post up Piggy's shot soon, before blows are thrown

Dennis
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lll View Post
i think in my case
when the whole room ignores your opinion....
like hyman roth said
"just let it go".......
Nobody ignored your shot. JB gave you a reply. You can't shoot the 6, you can't shoot the ball on the spot. You have to shoot the 7 (one way or another) or take a foul. Simple.
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shw View Post
What would be wrong with shooting the 7 straight in and leaving the cue near the chalk on the near end rail. A tough shot for sure but there aren't a lot of good shots here.

shw
For better or worse you win a cookie. He hit it so good the 7 didn't even touch the side rail. He did think about a couple of options for over a minute though.

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Here's how he left it for Truman:

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  #29  
Old 03-08-2012, 01:07 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
For better or worse you win a cookie. He hit it so good the 7 didn't even touch the side rail. He did think about a couple of options for over a minute though.

Attachment 5588

Attachment 5589


Here's how he left it for Truman:

Attachment 5590
Wow, what a great shot executed by Chicago's finest.

I couldn't resist.

Billy I.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2012, 01:16 PM
Banks Banks is offline
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I liked the 7, too, but thought it may be too close to the rail to let the CB float down and would instead bounce more towards the middle and sell out. Oh well. I've gotta start bringing my own cookies to this party.
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