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  #11  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:08 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
I go over this point very comprehensively in my bank DVDs, Doc. I do believe you had my first one didnt you?

Beard
I think I just got a little poke... I have the first disc from "Banks That Don't Go...", but a guy never sent me the second disc. I do have your book. Is it covered in there?

Doc
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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I think I just got a little poke... I have the first disc from "Banks That Don't Go...", but a guy never sent me the second disc. I do have your book. Is it covered in there?

Doc
The first disc Vol 1,was known as "bait," but the guy didnt bite. Yes the subject is also covered in the first book on pages 18,19,20 and 21.

Beard
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:14 AM
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Something to be mentioned in this thread, I really believe that the "hard" speeds many players see the top players shooting at, get translated into much harder speeds when these less capable players get to the table. I know it is true for me.
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:26 AM
Deeman Deeman is offline
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Funny, all these years as a very average banker, I believed that the top bankers shot at warp speed to maintain the same angle on all banks. In other words, I thought that shooting hard did away with the variation in rebound as the object ball does not have "time" to pick up roll and the very tight compression of the cushion made for consistent rebounds. I never thought it was for pocket acceptance as John has pointed out. I have found I win more with a very heavy balance toward hard strokes, say 80 hard and the remaining 20% at less speed for positional purposes.

Does my old theory not hold any water?

DeeMan
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:04 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc View Post
It would be instructive to define the terms. What speed does "firm" describe, and what speed is described by "hard"?

In John's YouTube video, the cross corner speed seems to me to be "firm" or perhaps "extra firm". Whereas I've seen Truman drill some shots that practically jump up from the pocket iron before they drop.

How would you describe the speed of John's YouTube banks?

Doc
Good eye Doc.I've been meaning to say this all along and just forgot..that hard is a relitive(sp) term.How do you spell that dam word? I don't blast them like alot of people think.I try to keep my speed the same if I can.I would call those cross corners I shot on the vid firm but not hard.I don't think I shoot as hard as Truman does on average.Hope that helps a lttle.John B.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerdurden View Post
Something to be mentioned in this thread, I really believe that the "hard" speeds many players see the top players shooting at, get translated into much harder speeds when these less capable players get to the table. I know it is true for me.
Yes and I believe this to be true also.If I get what your saying.Seems to me that some see a guy fire a couple of shots In real hard then for some reason they begin to think that they shoot them all real hard.I don't think that's the case.I think firm is a better word.I could be wrong about what you are saying though.Hope not and sorry if I am.John B.
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Deeman View Post
Funny, all these years as a very average banker, I believed that the top bankers shot at warp speed to maintain the same angle on all banks. In other words, I thought that shooting hard did away with the variation in rebound as the object ball does not have "time" to pick up roll and the very tight compression of the cushion made for consistent rebounds. I never thought it was for pocket acceptance as John has pointed out. I have found I win more with a very heavy balance toward hard strokes, say 80 hard and the remaining 20% at less speed for positional purposes.

Does my old theory not hold any water?

DeeMan
IMO It does.With my method and or theroy of making the pockets play eaiser,speed Is required on most shots.Clear as mud John B.
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:21 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
The first disc Vol 1,was known as "bait," but the guy didnt bite. Yes the subject is also covered in the first book on pages 18,19,20 and 21.

Beard
Fair enough. I'll put the 2nd disc of "BTDGBD" on my birthday or Christmas list. And, sho nuff, you make a good description of Easy, Firm, and Hard speeds in your book. Of course it depends upon playing conditions and rail speeds.

So by those definitions John's speed on the YouTube video would probably be considered "Hard" (An OB across a table 3 times). Do you agree?

Doc
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:14 PM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
Yes and I believe this to be true also.If I get what your saying.Seems to me that some see a guy fire a couple of shots In real hard then for some reason they begin to think that they shoot them all real hard.I don't think that's the case.I think firm is a better word.I could be wrong about what you are saying though.Hope not and sorry if I am.John B.
I think you are right on, and I watched your CUE when i watched that video of you, you don't slam that shot, but the ball somehow looks like it is flying when it goes in. It is somehow softer than it looks

I know now i have developed a really bad habit of just slamming banks. I think this is where a lot of my problems are coming from. I need to have this very workable firm yet not blast speed. I am again excited to work on some of this stuff and try it out. Thanks for the thread and discussion.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2012, 07:56 AM
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tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
Onemore thing,you can't get them to bend either when shooting easy and that's another trick to high level bankpool.I have about 4 things I do to make the pocket play eaiser and bigger and most all of them require some speed on the shot.I practice alot shooting easy and It makes me see how hard it becomes,too compared to firing em. Hope that helps bud.Now go practice
John B.
I did get a chance to practice today, and one of the shots I was hitting was the one you do in your practice video. I noticed the ones I hit good at the nice speed you are talking about would bend "back" (looked to start off a bit long). I did feel like my percentage was going up quickly, especially when I kept the speed consistent, but would you be willing to explain why the bending helps make the pocket play bigger? Again, I was getting a better feel for this shot, I just wasn't sure about the theory. Anyway, thanks a ton again, I always get excited to hit em after you get on here.

I was also cutting some side pocket banks more with center ball, and shortening the rebound angle, yet opening up the pocket as you suggested in this and another thread. I am really getting a feel for how valuable that is. Really amazing. I used to be scared to overcut a bank with center ball because I was not used to judging how much the hit would grab, but now I am getting a feel for it and do notice the larger pocket. Anyway, thanks again.
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