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  #21  
Old 07-06-2012, 03:42 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks View Post
I was talking about the Z-bank, not the safety. I guess I should have pointed that out.
Sorry, I didn't realize that you were talking about banking the 8. Is the Z- bank the same as banking the 8 ball three in the side? If so it doesn't look like the angle for that shot is on. If it is I would shoot that shot.

Dr. Bill
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  #22  
Old 07-06-2012, 03:50 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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This is the shot I'm referring to:

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  #23  
Old 07-06-2012, 03:56 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
This is the shot I'm referring to:

Attachment 6394
Dennis, I understand that that's the actual Z- shot, but the Z- shot Banks was referring to was the 8 ball (I believe) Look below.


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If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.

Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
I'm still confused.

Dr. Bill
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Dennis, I understand that that's the actual Z- shot, but the Z- shot Banks was referring to was the 8 ball (I believe) Look below.


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If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.

Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
I'm still confused.

Dr. Bill
I'm referring to post #20.

Dennis
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:07 PM
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oldspurguy oldspurguy is offline
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Will the seven go one rail in the corner? If so, it looks like the cueball will miss the eight. Seems like you could try it, and still not leave much.
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2012, 05:36 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
I don't care what anyone else on the planet would shoot or why, but, for my money I'm banking the 4 ball two-rails cross-corner just as you would Freddy. I would never do otherwise in this position.

What's not to like? You need one ball. You get to shoot straight ahead, stroke the ball, and it will die blocking the corner if you miss it (most likely) preventing the straight-back on the 7 & 8. This is fairly simple to see.

Dennis
Did you mean 'fairly simple to see' or "fairly simple to do'?

Dr. Bill
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2012, 05:49 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Did you mean 'fairly simple to see' or "fairly simple to do'?

Dr. Bill
I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick.

Dr. Bill
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  #28  
Old 07-06-2012, 05:58 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick.

Dr. Bill
I went back to my table and shot it 5 more times, I made it one time and I never was able to control the speed of the shot because of the angle and the speed needed to hit and stick.Even though I couldn't hit and stick I tried to get as little movement with the cue ball as possible which created problems with both the direction and speed of the 4 ball. This is not a good option period. At least, not for me.

Dr. Bill
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:58 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
I went back to my table and shot it 5 more times, I made it one time and I never was able to control the speed of the shot because of the angle and the speed needed to hit and stick.Even though I couldn't hit and stick I tried to get as little movement with the cue ball as possible which created problems with both the direction and speed of the 4 ball. This is not a good option period. At least, not for me.

Dr. Bill
I just came back from the store and was thinking about this shot on the way back. I said to myself that when I get back i'll set the shot up so it's a hit and stick shot to see if I would like the shot if it ever showed like that. Well I shot the shot 5 times and made it twice, hung it once and missed it twice. But, I hit the shot with the speed that gave me the best chance of making it, which I did 40% of the time plus like I mentioned hung it once. I concluded that if you're going to play this shot in situations that allowed you to, the best way to play the shot is with the speed that gives you the most accuracy, and not the speed that blocks the pocket if you miss it.

So, if the shot shows where it's a hit and stick shot I would strongly consider shooting it, but if the angle precludes me from hitting and sticking I would not play the shot.

I guess Freddie was correct with his evaluation of the shot, providing it is a hit and stick shot but like I suggested that if the shot shows, play the shot with the speed that gives you the most accurate hit. Jmo.

Dr. Bill
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2012, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick. Dr. Bill
I wondered about that angle myself. It looked to my eye like the OB had to be contacted a little left of center. Either that, or to shorten the angle, the shot would have to be hit pretty hard if shot straight on, or with a smidge of left english-- neither of which I'd like to do. I'd like the shot better if I could roll the CB forward and bank it off the rail more towards center table, which would make the 8 & 7 much harder to bank.

Another minor consideration is that the CB is close to the rail, which would cause the shooter to have to dig down on the CB a little if using low english.

But Fred's reasoning is solid too. If a guy is reasonably confident about making the twice-across pink, then he should go for it. Even if not, the best that the opponent probably could do would be to make two, when he needs five. The shooter can win the game here with very little downside if he misses.

Doc

Last edited by gulfportdoc; 07-07-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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