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  #11  
Old 10-05-2014, 03:41 PM
petie petie is offline
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I think I'll be nobler in the mind.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2014, 04:04 PM
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Patrick Johnson Patrick Johnson is offline
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I think I'll be nobler in the mind.
Yes, to question the Kentucky King and His Beard is madness... yet there is method in 't.

pj <- Googled it
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 10-05-2014 at 10:22 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2014, 10:39 PM
petie petie is offline
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I don't have the patience or the interest to search all over the web but I know I have seen demos and proofs of these phenomena.
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2014, 10:43 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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pj you are on the right track. players confuse stroke with imaginary things happening to the balls. a few thins make banks go long or short and you have said most or all of them. hitting softer compresses the rail less so the angle is more open. harder does the opposite.

so balls far off the rail the angle it hits the rail at and the speed are the things that determine the angle. or if a little english is on the object ball.

people confuse draw with shortening the bank. but generally with draw you are really hitting the bank harder so it goes shorter.

its good to question the pros as most are at that speed because of ability rather than vast knowledge.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:05 AM
LSJohn LSJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Thanks, petie - this claim (that transferred follow can be greater than "natural roll" follow) is exactly what I'm skeptical about. My friend Mike Page has done a video experiment that shows you couldn't even get much "overspin" follow on the OB by hitting it directly with your cue stick - so getting even momentary overspin transferred to the OB from the CB seems almost impossible.

"Fargo Billiards" YouTube Channel



pj
chgo

Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

Interesting video. Thanks
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:20 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by LSJohn View Post
Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

Interesting video. Thanks
Nice question. It's hard to make that shot without a bunch of draw...no? JB
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:20 AM
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androd androd is offline
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Originally Posted by LSJohn View Post
Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

Interesting video. Thanks
Yep. Many frozen caroms are forced forward with draw. Unfrozen the first ball can be made to draw a little with high or middle ball.
Rod.

Last edited by androd; 10-06-2014 at 10:26 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2014, 11:18 AM
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Cary Cary is offline
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You guys stop, you're going to confuse him.

That frozen spot shot was the first thing I thought of on this thread. The second was the amount of action you get when you use draw on an eight or nine ball break (ditto force follow, but that's a different story).
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2014, 11:52 AM
beatle beatle is offline
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you use low on breaks to hold the cue ball. not for speed. it will actually slow you down some. best for speed(power) on your break in nine ball is center ball or a tiny bit of high.

a big thanks to john b. for starting all of this discussion as its something for all of us to think about.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2014, 12:13 PM
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Patrick Johnson Patrick Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Quote:
LSJohn:
Isn't overspin on the OB exactly what is used to make the front ball of two spotted balls go toward a corner pocket? (just sayin' )

Interesting video. Thanks
Nice question. It's hard to make that shot without a bunch of draw...no? JB
That is a good question - I expected to see it.

Yes, some follow is transferred to the OB for that shot. And since the first OB is momentarily trapped between the CB and the second OB (like a bank with the OB frozen to the rail), more than the usual amount of follow is transferred - but still not more than "natural rolling" follow. I don't believe that draw on the CB, even in the most advantageous cases like this, can ever transfer enough follow to the OB to equal rolling follow.

Also, it's not commonly known, but the OB is forced forward quite a bit in that shot even without draw on the CB - I'm told (by people who should know, like Bob Jewett, Ron Shepard and Dr. Dave) that it can theoretically be made without any transferred follow if it's hit at just the right angle (aimed at a point 1/10 of the way from the end rail center diamond to the corner pocket). I've never been able to make it that way, but I believe these guys, especially when they all agree.

pj
chgo
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