Fodder for the cannon, or water pistol?

fred bentivegna said:

I never spelled it officially either way, but in my dotage I have sorta stayed with Fre.....ddy. That advice to duck the bite should have its own page on Kilroy's Rules of the Road.

Beard

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Ok, gotcha on the "...ddy" That's how I been writting it for the past year or two so at least I got that part right.

If you don't mind and with your permission, I'm going to spread your "duck the bite" advice around to some close friends who could also use some back-up as far as their wallets are concerned.

Terry Ardeno said:

Ok, gotcha on the "...ddy" That's how I been writting it for the past year or two so at least I got that part right.

If you don't mind and with your permission, I'm going to spread your "duck the bite" advice around to some close friends who could also use some back-up as far as their wallets are concerned.

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Terry, for a nominal fee I give lessons on ducking the bite. I have a CD that teaches you to stand in front of a mirror and practice shaping your mouth to say No. No is all that's necessary, although most just stand there waiting for the rest of the story. Like my rents due or I need this for a car payment or some such.
Rod.
PS, Years ago they came out with signs in bars that said "What part of No don't you understand" Everyone I knew would just point at the sign and then point at me and grin.

androd said:

Terry, for a nominal fee I give lessons on ducking the bite. I have a CD that teaches you to stand in front of a mirror and practice shaping your mouth to say No. No is all that's necessary, although most just stand there waiting for the rest of the story. Like my rents due or I need this for a car payment or some such.
Rod.
PS, Years ago they came out with signs in bars that said "What part of No don't you understand" Everyone I knew would just point at the sign and then point at me and grin.

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While it was not technically a "bite", I did avoid giving a "tip" to Miami one time. In the late 80's Miami played "Shane" and lost the first time, I was not betting on it.

The rematch I did bet on Miami and won somewhere around $500-$600.

After the game was over Miami went around the room with his hand out asking people "how much you win?". Everybody gave him something. I had a few minutes until he got to me and I thought of the perfect response.

When he got to me and asked "how much you win?" I answered, "I won back half of what I lost the first time you played him". He did a double-take and it sunk in what I was saying. I don't know if he actually thought that I did bet on him the first time or if he realized that I wasn't tipping him this time. I was the only person in the room not to tip him that night.

Dennis

dennis you are a VERY principled man.same secario today do you tip him???

fred bentivegna said:

This may be the hardest thing to believe of everything that I have ever said, but here goes, Cliff owes me ZERO! I have successfully dodged every effort. Dont forget, I hung with Jersey Red, Pancho, CornBread, Whitey and Peter Rabbit. The key is to go on the offensive with serious bite attempts yourself. Also, never flash the bankroll. Know the sequence of every bill so you can go in your pocket and retrieve any amount without exposing the roll to the air. Be very careful as to who is listening when you are talking about booking a winner. Always have a, "I just blew everything at the crap table/race track/poker table/side bet, etc," line, instantly available. Compared to Peter Rabbit and CornBread, Cliff is easy.

Beard

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FREDDY, I knew Jersey Red for many years and never saw or heard of him not repaying a debt of money he borrowed. All the years I knew him, his word was golden. Many times he came and gave me money and said try to make a game with Joe Blow or whoever, and I'm in. He loved being in action when we were younger. I believe you knew him before I so you may know other things about him. He had no problem biting me. I know you never said didn't pay, but you had him listed with some fast company.
Rod.

androd said:

FREDDY, I knew Jersey Red for many years and never saw or heard of him not repaying a debt of money he borrowed. All the years I knew him, his word was golden. Many times he came and gave me money and said try to make a game with Joe Blow or whoever, and I'm in. He loved being in action when we were younger. I believe you knew him before I so you may know other things about him. He had no problem biting me. I know you never said didn't pay, but you had him listed with some fast company.
Rod.

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What Rod said, FOR SURE !!!...I Don't know if you remember Rod, But Red got me put on Don Siegel's payroll as soon as I moved to Houston.(mid-60's)
Don used to pay him and I, each, $125 a week to play ONLY at the Le Cue, when in town. As far as I know, we were the only two.

Not that I was ever in Red's class as a well known top player, but Red convinced Don that I would create a lot of action.
The money was there for us every Fri. nite, and If I was out of town, Red or Dottie would pick it up for me, and it was always there when I got back.

Red was a much better game maker than I was, especially in those days, but he never shied away from "taking a piece" if I asked.
Oft times Dottie would cringe, at some of my match-ups...Red would just laugh and say,..."Its OK hon"...He was a great guy, and always one of my favorite people. He had an air of dignity about him, that transcended his wise-cracking, hard core, hustler bred lifestyle. To steal a little of Fred's thunder, what he said about me in SMAS, was something I'll never forget.

PS..I think I asked you before, Is Dottie still around Houston ?..Do you have a contact for her ? I'd like to just say Hi. (anyone ?)

The Red Raider

The Red Raider

androd said:

FREDDY, I knew Jersey Red for many years and never saw or heard of him not repaying a debt of money he borrowed. All the years I knew him, his word was golden. Many times he came and gave me money and said try to make a game with Joe Blow or whoever, and I'm in. He loved being in action when we were younger. I believe you knew him before I so you may know other things about him. He had no problem biting me. I know you never said didn't pay, but you had him listed with some fast company.
Rod.

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Rod, as you must know, I loved Jersey Red. Now that he is gone, I will respond to your post and tip off the Red Raider's hole card. Remember the movie, The Producers? When Red's skills were on the downslide, but he was still attending tourns., he would secure multiple "tournament sponsors" to provide him with entry fees and expenses. Each one believing he was the sole sponsor. Red could only get in trouble if he finished high in the tournament.
Now here is the weird part, Red still had enough ego and pride to still try and win! He did not go into the tank! I know this for a fact because he and I drew each other in the Philly Legends, and he had already told me he had financed his trip with multiple backers. When we played he tried his ass off.


Beard

SJD, it's ok, go ahead and give us the direct quote from Red. I'm curious and dont feel like looking it up.

lll said:

dennis you are a VERY principled man.same secario today do you tip him???

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Larry,

Miami and I had a kind of thing whereby he'd try to get the best of me and I usually escaped his routines. Things that worked or work on other(normal) people do not work on me. I never/almost never played pool for the money as I was employed so the greed and dirty tricks that many would fall into a trap over never affected me. I would not tip him today, to answer your question. I was the only person in the room not to bet on him the first time and only one of two who bet on him the second time and won. That's a story in itself. The whole room bet on him the second time but only my partner and I won good cash.

Dennis

fred bentivegna said:

SJD, it's ok, go ahead and give us the direct quote from Red. I'm curious and dont feel like looking it up.

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Freddy,

If you don't mind I'll butt in here and post it. I believe the Duck lost his copy of SM&S in his mini-katrina, and also because he's busy with other things right now. I'm not certain that SJD was referring to this quote but here is Jersey Red on page 299 of SM&S referencing the Duck in regards to SJD's story of having played Fats and having to fade his poodle. After losing to Fats in an exhibition, SJD gave Fats 8-7 and beat him in a $2000 set and then gave him 10-8 the next night and beat him for another $2000. This is the match where SJD mentions that Fats' poodle would come over when he was shooting and try to pee on his shoes.

Breit: I was there and that poodle was truly a pisser. Dick, who was within a ball of anyone of any era, was easily the better player by that time and nothing could have saved Fats; not even that dog. The last time Fats played really well was when Richie Florence tried to give him 8-7 in Johnston City, Illinois, in 1965 or 66. Fats, already over the hill for 10 to 12 years, turned back the clock. He kept running out like it was 1946 all over again.


P.S. These matches took place in the late 60's according to SJD.

Dennis

Another sharking dog

Another sharking dog

Cowboy Dennis said:

Freddy,

If you don't mind I'll butt in here and post it. I believe the Duck lost his copy of SM&S in his mini-katrina, and also because he's busy with other things right now. I'm not certain that SJD was referring to this quote but here is Jersey Red on page 299 of SM&S referencing the Duck in regards to SJD's story of having played Fats and having to fade his poodle. After losing to Fats in an exhibition, SJD gave Fats 8-7 and beat him in a $2000 set and then gave him 10-8 the next night and beat him for another $2000. This is the match where SJD mentions that Fats' poodle would come over when he was shooting and try to pee on his shoes.

Breit: I was there and that poodle was truly a pisser. Dick, who was within a ball of anyone of any era, was easily the better player by that time and nothing could have saved Fats; not even that dog. The last time Fats played really well was when Richie Florence tried to give him 8-7 in Johnston City, Illinois, in 1965 or 66. Fats, already over the hill for 10 to 12 years, turned back the clock. He kept running out like it was 1946 all over again.


P.S. These matches took place in the late 60's according to SJD.

Dennis

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Detroit Whitey and his dog Windy:

Whitey hung out in my joint, The Four B's Club for awhile. His dog Windy (a German Shepherd) never left his side. Windy would lay down under the pool table when Whitey was playing. When Whitey gave him the "office," Windy would snarl, growl, and sometimes fart just as Whitey's opponent would go to shoot.

Beard
Yes, Windy was "that" dog.

fred bentivegna said:

Yes, Windy was "that" dog.

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'Nuff said 'bout dat .

Cowboy Dennis said:

Freddy,

If you don't mind I'll butt in here and post it. I believe the Duck lost his copy of SM&S in his mini-katrina, and also because he's busy with other things right now. I'm not certain that SJD was referring to this quote but here is Jersey Red on page 299 of SM&S referencing the Duck in regards to SJD's story of having played Fats and having to fade his poodle. After losing to Fats in an exhibition, SJD gave Fats 8-7 and beat him in a $2000 set and then gave him 10-8 the next night and beat him for another $2000. This is the match where SJD mentions that Fats' poodle would come over when he was shooting and try to pee on his shoes.

Breit: I was there and that poodle was truly a pisser. Dick, who was within a ball of anyone of any era, was easily the better player by that time and nothing could have saved Fats; not even that dog. The last time Fats played really well was when Richie Florence tried to give him 8-7 in Johnston City, Illinois, in 1965 or 66. Fats, already over the hill for 10 to 12 years, turned back the clock. He kept running out like it was 1946 all over again.


P.S. These matches took place in the late 60's according to SJD.

Dennis

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Thank you Dennis,

As George W. said, "I cannot tell a lie" ... Red was there, (as was our Rodney) ... Rod recently corrected me on my [sic] recollections...After losing the exhibition match. (in which Siegel put up 1k to the winner) We broke even the next two sessions, and Fat's declined to play the rubber match, which I guess I considered a huge moral victory...Red and I also lost a few schekels side wagering..

I have faded a lot of major sharking in my days, (think RA)...but no one ever laid it down like Fatty. I had a lot of fun playing him, and watching him play to the crowd, which was 3 deep every day...He even stole my "fan club", because they knew he was the underdog.

The only reason I wound up in the box, was because Fat's would not play Red. He knew he could not win in that spot, and I was a relative unknown.

I have tried (unsuccesfully) to retrieve a copy of the Houston Chronicle. (Sunday,front page sports section) In which a reporter, who had probably never seen a game of pool (let alone onepocket) in his entire life, wrote a glowing half page article on Fat's destruction of a mere mortal. It went to the last ball hill/hill, only because I dogged my brains out under the spotlight......I have never found it because I don't have a clue if it was 66, 67, 68 or 69... nor do I recall the time of year.

As Dennis says..."gotta love the Fatman"

PS..Freddy, Dennis did get Red's quote right, ver batum..

PPS..There MAY be a few other stories, in SMAS, where the actual outcome of any given story...may be just a little off...But it does make for good reading. (but only to a pool degenerate)....

SJDinPHX said:

As George W. said, "I cannot tell a lie" ... Red was there, (as was our Rodney) ... Rod recently corrected me on my [sic] recollections...After losing the exhibition match. (in which Siegel put up 1k to the winner) We broke even the next two sessions, and Fat's declined to play the rubber match. (Which I guess I considered a small victory)

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How in the hell is anyone supposed to impugn your already questionable credibility when you flat out tell on youself? Nobody in 14 years has questioned the account in the book(SM&S) and instead of backing it up(you winning $4000) and/or expanding on it, you shoot it down. What the hell is wrong with you? I thought you were a poolplayer!!! We always beat everybody, won more cash, booked fewer losers, and got more women than the books let on. Come on Dick, get with it already .

Is this some kind of trick to make Freddy think you are humble?

Cowboy "tellin' it like it is, in the book, not like Rod & Ducky remember it" Dennis

SJDinPHX said:

Thank you Dennis,



I have faded a lot of major sharking in my days, (think RA)...but no one ever laid it down like Fatty. I had a lot of fun playing him, and watching him play to the crowd, which was 3 deep every day...He even stole my "fan club", because they knew he was the underdog.




As Dennis says..."gotta love the Fatman"

PS..Freddy, Dennis did get Red's quote right, ver batum..

good reading. (but only to a pool degenerate)....

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FAT brutally sharked Ducky with the pup and many more NY moves. Our beloved Duck had been up possibly the whole session and aquitted himself quite well considering the situation. At this stage FAT was brutal.
Rod.

Very clever confession?

Very clever confession?

Cowboy Dennis said:

How in the hell is anyone supposed to impugn your already questionable credibility when you flat out tell on youself? Nobody in 14 years has questioned the account in the book(SM&S) and instead of backing it up(you winning $4000) and/or expanding on it, you shoot it down. What the hell is wrong with you? I thought you were a poolplayer!!! We always beat everybody, won more cash, booked fewer losers, and got more women than the books let on. Come on Dick, get with it already .

Is this some kind of trick to make Freddy think you are humble?

Cowboy "tellin' it like it is, in the book, not like Rod & Ducky remember it" Dennis

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Humble? Ha! His "confession" could well be a paranoid super move. He may have thought that I knew Jersey Red well enough to know the "real" story, and was perhaps holding the expose back until he had dug himself a deep enough hole; so he decided to 'fess up and head me off at the pass.
Unfortunately, it's very hard to stay a move ahead of a onepocket player.

Beard

fred bentivegna said:

Unfortunately, it's very hard to stay a move ahead of a onepocket player.

Beard

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I certainly agree with you there Fred...If there were one around [sic] it would be very hard to stay ahead of him...

Bank pool player's however, are much softer targets...Their brains have never quite fully developed..

Note to self;...Self, do not let "Flannel Mouth" Dennis butt in, when engaged in verbal confrontation with the Beardmonster... As he only seems to provide "fodder" for his ever weakening, self-serving "pop gun"...

fred bentivegna said:

Humble? Ha! His "confession" could well be a paranoid super move.

Beard

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A pre-emptive strike, eh Freddy? Or maybe a fake double-reverse. SJD(androd ) set us up to believe he broke even with Fatty and then in a few weeks he "finds" witnesses to back up the original story, except they say he won $12000 not $4000 and he gave Fats 10-6 the last set .

Obviously we can't question the new story as the Duck was humble enough to admit that he thought the original story in SM&S was wrong. It leaves us no choice but to believe the "found" witnesses.

He is a sneaky Duck .

Cowboy "conspiracy theorist" Dennis

keno in reno

keno in reno

Ha,we maybe cant dance but we sure cant sing.And the old fake double-reverse is only fake if they dont see it in time.The old Hugh McElelhenny,give em a leg and take it away.Not to mention the Saratoga Shuffle[before my time but out of season anyway in this den of highway men].A straight answer from a straight pool player maybe but never 1P,I see that now.There's someone right behind you but its never too late if the good Lord's on your side and Marilyn M. is right in front of you.Sweet dreams,back to my coma,adieu and thanks for the lecture,B