frost vs efren again

The problem with the shot that steve and a few others are advocating is if you shoot the 3 ball combo into the 1 ball the hit on the first ball(10 ball)? is so thin to get any movement on the 1 ball the cueball will be moving to fast.. Thats why the intentional I suggest will leave him in a BAD spot!!

onepockethacker said:

The problem with the shot that steve and a few others are advocating is if you shoot the 3 ball combo into the 1 ball the hit on the first ball(10 ball)? is so thin to get any movement on the 1 ball the cueball will be moving to fast.. Thats why the intentional I suggest will leave him in a BAD spot!!

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i took toms shot as not trying to make the combo
just hitting the balls soft enought to get whitey over to the side rail and loosen a few balls

lll said:

i took toms shot as not trying to make the combo
just hitting the balls soft enought to get whitey over to the side rail and loosen a few balls

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The problem with that is you cannot get balls by your hole AND leave the cueball on the side rail so your opponent just puts you right back up table frozen on the end rail and straight in on the 2 ball AGAIN... YOUR MOVE Everyone is really overlooking the value of an intentional here

onepockethacker said:

You are describing Steves shot pretty much and if you hit a real good there are great rewards BUT if your cueball ends up on the end rail and your opponent can see the 7 ball or 1 ball you bring down you are screwed. Thats the reason I like taking an intentional going behind the 9 ball 2 rails and coming up from behind and bumping the 14 ball? So he will be doubled up on the 6 and 7 balls and basicall touching the 14 ball from underneath

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Larry, The answer is yes it is but that's ok I'm sure Steve was unaware of my early post.

Rob, You are right that with the shot off the ball near the foot spot balls are not being directed toward you hole in any significant way but neither are there any balls headed you way with the intentional you have described. In addition, the speed and precision of your shot must be executed perfectly or the responses will be numerous. Therefore with the intentional you just surrender a ball and I don't see what you accomplish.

Tom

onepockethacker said:

The problem with that is you cannot get balls by your hole AND leave the cueball on the side rail so your opponent just puts you right back up table frozen on the end rail and straight in on the 2 ball AGAIN... YOUR MOVE Everyone is really overlooking the value of an intentional here

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bill stroud did think an intentional was the shot but came up with a dufferent one which billi I already critiqued
well robert you win a cookie!!
efren took the scratch as you described
steves shot was tring to get the cue ball to a similar spot without the scratch
steve you get 1/2 a cookie...
heres the shot and how he left it for scott

lll said:

bill stroud did think an intentional was the shot but came up with a dufferent one which billi I already critiqued
well robert you win a cookie!!
efren took the scratch as you described
steves shot was tring to get the cue ball to a similar spot without the scratch
steve you get 1/2 a cookie...
heres the shot and how he left it for scott
View attachment 8369

View attachment 8370

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Thank you very much.. oh well if the best one pocket player that has ever lived chose the same shot I did I can live with that and the results... carry on gentleman
P.S. Tom, your shot wouldn't have accomplished anything and depending on where on the side rail you leave the cueball you would have been hating life!!
If you shot your shot and the cueball ended up on the side rail near my pocket, I shoot the 4 ball 2 rails into the 15 ball and stun the cueball over to your side rail. If you left the cueball on my side rail by the first diamond I thinly billiard off the 11 ball and than bank the 1 ball toward my hole.. Both scenarios you are in BIG trouble

Even with that, what I'd call, stellar execution though, he may still be able to see efren's side rail there where the 2 is. And maybe he can see that top ball in the cluster (I think the 11?). If he bumps it 1/8 of an inch more, he for sure can.

That was a really good call by hacker no doubt, I just would not shoot that myself, mainly because that speed is very difficult for me to lay down like he did.

tylerdurden said:

Even with that, what I'd call, stellar execution though, he may still be able to see efren's side rail there where the 2 is. And maybe he can see that top ball in the cluster (I think the 11?). If he bumps it 1/8 of an inch more, he for sure can.

That was a really good call by hacker no doubt, I just would not shoot that myself, mainly because that speed is very difficult for me to lay down like he did.

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There was more margin for error than you think but either way you were in a tough spot(that why we are discussing these) if they were easy whats the point? if any of the other shots were chosen and hit a hair off you could lose the game on them!!
P.S. you hear people especially Billy I. mention the VALUE of taking an intentional foul in certain spots.. well this epitomizes what that is all about.

nice to discuss one pocket without collateral damage..........
just sayin

I was just getting ready to post that of all the options discussed that the option I liked best was Rob's option with the intentional. However, I was a little late with my evaluation report but better late than never.

Dr. Bill

lll said:

nice to discuss one pocket without collateral damage..........
just sayin

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This better not be a trap Larry where Scott frams something on the next shot, shits one in and runs out :lol:lol

onepockethacker said:

There was more margin for error than you think but either way you were in a tough spot(that why we are discussing these) if they were easy whats the point? if any of the other shots were chosen and hit a hair off you could lose the game on them!!
P.S. you hear people especially Billy I. mention the VALUE of taking an intentional foul in certain spots.. well this epitomizes what that is all about.
Whether or not Billy I. wants to agree with me in writing(he may still be a little "sore" from our 3 encounters) im not sure

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Rob, you have a good mind for the game and I respect your opinion ..most of the time, however, on our 3 encounters it wasn't all about you.. it was just as much about ...none about me. And unfortunately..I don't think i'm going to get back in form any time soon...at least not in this life.

It's unfortunate that where i'm going (UP) that the chances of us meeting again are ...SLIM


Dr. Bill

wincardona said:

Rob, you have a good mind for the game and I respect your opinion ..most of the time, however, on our 3 encounters it wasn't all about you.. it was just as much about ...none about me. And unfortunately..I don't think i'm going to get back in form any time soon...at least not in this life.



Dr. Bill

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LMFAO Billy you know im just busting your balls.. I respect your opinion as much or more than anyone on here.. The reason I bust your balls is because I know you can take it and have a great sense of humor like me.. Just remember how much we were laughing our asses off sitting outside the tournament room every night at Derby this year.. WHERE DO YOU LIVE? does that inside joke ring a bell. I know in your prime I could have never had beaten you...(thats because i was 4 years old then!!:lol) You are just not able to execute anymore and I understand that.. I wasted alot of talent for this game by not dedicating myself to it plus since I started at 20 years old I have never had the "kids" love for the game.. Hope you go to Tunica because I will be looking forward to us laughing our asses off.

lll said:

bill stroud did think an intentional was the shot but came up with a dufferent one which billi I already critiqued
well robert you win a cookie!!
efren took the scratch as you described
steves shot was tring to get the cue ball to a similar spot without the scratch
steve you get 1/2 a cookie...
heres the shot and how he left it for scott
View attachment 8369

View attachment 8370

Click to expand...

Not to be critical of the mastery of Efren, and seeing that his speed control and precision was prefect as usual, I see many responses to this position. Intentionals included. I still like Frost's position and don't see where Efren has helped his cause to any significant extent. Don't you think he is in just as much trouble as he was before he took the scratch?

Tom

wincardona said:

Rob, you have a good mind for the game and I respect your opinion ..most of the time, however, on our 3 encounters it wasn't all about you.. it was just as much about ...none about me. And unfortunately..I don't think i'm going to get back in form any time soon...at least not in this life.

It's unfortunate that where i'm going (UP) that the chances of us meeting again are ...SLIM


Dr. Bill

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LMFAO :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Tom Wirth said:

Not to be critical of the mastery of Efren, and seeing that his speed control and precision was prefect as usual, I see many responses to this position. Intentionals included. I still like Frost's position and don't see where Efren has helped his cause to any significant extent. Don't you think he is in just as much trouble as he was before he took the scratch?

Tom

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No......... quit while you are behind Tom you could end up talking yourself out of a ticket to Las vegas Please tell me your reply to this current situation that Scott is now in... im getting ready to call a shot clock violation LOL

I'm obviously not Tom but wouldn't you just thin the 6 and go 2 rails behind the 1?

Eagleshot said:

I'm obviously not Tom but wouldn't you just thin the 6 and go 2 rails behind the 1?

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Lets take a fair look at the situation before Efren shot and then after he shot. We have to assume that Reyes figured that all other options that were available ...Strouds...Tom's...Eagles...and what ever other option may have been available ....didn't carry the ability to open balls on his side and safety up the cue ball. Once this is understood then we have to be in agreement that the distance and angle offered to Reyes (before he shot) was problematic and too difficult to chance one of the other options. Again with this understanding Reyes probably figured that it was going to be a grind to get out of this dilemma and opted to take the intentional...figuring that this shot was the best option to ...buy time ..and put the..demand to perform back on his opponent. Eagle says to thin off the 6ball and position the cue ball close to the 1ball...which is a good reply to Reyes option, however, he still needs to perform and that's was Reyes plan all along. Force your opponent to have to perform, make him earn what he gets.

This position will never be remedied on any one shot..considering where Reyes shot from. Sometimes we have to prepare ourselves for a battle and 'roll up our sleeves" and get to work.

Dr. Bill

onepockethacker said:

No......... quit while you are behind Tom you could end up talking yourself out of a ticket to Las vegas Please tell me your reply to this current situation that Scott is now in... im getting ready to call a shot clock violation LOL

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Sorry Rob, I was trying to use greenshot to diagram the path of the cue ball for my reply but I must admit I have no idea how to use it! So I am still stuck with a written description.

BTW. I'm glad I like you Rob or I would be in a lot of trouble!

So here is one potential response not that this would be my final decision after considering other possible options. How 'bout an intentional sending the cue ball three rails back up table to the top rail. The path being using right hand English striking approximately at the middle diamond on the bottom rail intending to hit the third rail just above the side pocket and on to the top rail. I know my speed control is good enough to pull that off and I've no doubt Scott can do it equally well. If executed properly the two ball shot will not be a good option for Efren.

There is always the two rail kick toward the one ball softly.

Rob, I am not worried about the ticket for Vegas. As I said before, though I would very much enjoy going, any of the players on the short list would make excellent ambassadors for OP.org This without doubt includes you.

Tom

Eagleshot said:

I'm obviously not Tom but wouldn't you just thin the 6 and go 2 rails behind the 1?

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If he thins off the 6 2 rails behind the 1 ball if Efren can see the 7 ball, he will bank it out of there clearing balls from Scotts hole and he will be pretty much out of the trap. The point of this Efren was in a bad spot not a good one when this all started and as Billy said he is looking to make Scott perform not just gift wrap a game for him