Do you want to see the top pros play or listen to the commentators???

LSJohn

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Ive seen Danny D play in the 60's to the 90's. Tournament and gamble. Ive seen him run 125 and out more times that I can remember. For cash. Ive seen him run strings of 9 ball racks. 8 and out many times. But dont take my word for it. Hes still alive and you can talk to him yourself about it.

Incredible. No laughable.

I'm not sure, but I have the impression that this post of yours was in response to mine immediately prior. If so, you've misunderstood the point. I thought it would be clear that "recommends" had to do with his commentating analysis, not his playing skill.

As others have mentioned, some of the "wild" shots he recommends can open up our minds to other possibilities even if he wouldn't and we shouldn't shoot them under the exact circumstances at hand.
 

LSJohn

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Having someone like Billy I in the booth with Danny is definitely a big help because Billy has no problem disagreeing, and his counter-insight is often the best thing you hear, but it makes me wonder if Billy actually benefits from being drawn out in response to the Danny D comment, and ultimately that's how we benefit as listeners.

Exactly. I made almost the same point earlier. Only problem is, with Beanie and Freddy gone, there ain't "someone like Billy."
 

LSJohn

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keoneyo

keoneyo

""the proof is in the pudding".

Playing skill does not equal commentating skill.

Disliking one's commentating style is not a sign of disrespect nor denigration of playing skill.

If I were to criticize a shot a top player actually shot, I'd be questioning the judgment of someone whose judgment would very likely be far superior to my own, and that would be foolish. But I'm on a lot more solid ground questioning or even criticizing a shot a top player recommends when I've heard many times Billy or Beanie or Freddie or U.J or Red make the same criticism in a way that implies to me that the player wouldn't shoot the shot he's recommending.
 

stedyfred

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People have come on this forum and questioned Efren regarding his uptable game when leading his opponent ( not always taking balls out of play when leading). As Keoneyo says the "proof is in the pudding" and none of us are in a position to question Efren's results. They speak for themselves. Many posters may not agree with all of Danny Smith's shot selections also but there is an emerging GR8 player with skills that most players cannot even relate to. Also his results speak for themselves. A champion player knows how to play to his strengths and they will not always align themselves with the average or good player's mindset. Danny executed shots in his match with CG that most players here would not agree with or attempt.
 

keoneyo

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""the proof is in the pudding".

Playing skill does not equal commentating skill.

Disliking one's commentating style is not a sign of disrespect nor denigration of playing skill.

If I were to criticize a shot a top player actually shot, I'd be questioning the judgment of someone whose judgment would very likely be far superior to my own, and that would be foolish. But I'm on a lot more solid ground questioning or even criticizing a shot a top player recommends when I've heard many times Billy or Beanie or Freddie or U.J or Red make the same criticism in a way that implies to me that the player wouldn't shoot the shot he's recommending.

Dislike is everyones prerogative.
Qualifying someones skill is the prerogative of the experienced.

I listen to Bill Incardona with his years of experience as a player/champion and commentator and educator. Even with his impulse to keep the peace and make everyone happy.

I listen to Bill Smith, who can tell you himself, of all the experience he has as a tournament winner and tough gambler and educator.

I listen to Hacker who has balls even in his profane way and as many have said is a damn good player.

I listen to Pat Fleming who has provided all of us lucky sod's with thousand of hours of pocket billiard enjoyment.

This is where the proof of is in the pudding.
 

keoneyo

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I'm not sure, but I have the impression that this post of yours was in response to mine immediately prior. If so, you've misunderstood the point. I thought it would be clear that "recommends" had to do with his commentating analysis, not his playing skill.

As others have mentioned, some of the "wild" shots he recommends can open up our minds to other possibilities even if he wouldn't and we shouldn't shoot them under the exact circumstances at hand.

Not everything is about you.
My inkwell is pretty dry on this subject.
Ill just sit back and enjoy the inanity.
 

LSJohn

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Not everything is about you.

Really?

Damnit!

My inkwell is pretty dry on this subject

Hard for me to let go of a good controversy. When we all agree, there's usually not a lot to say. :)

I think a good debate is a lot more interesting than "I agree," but I too have said more than enough about this.

I hope the event goes gangbusters. Billy makes a good point about the interesting idea of matching up a couple of the young guns with the acknowledged big-timers.

I enjoyed our discussion.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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accu stats videos are not promoted as "teaching videos"(ALTHOUGH WE ALL AGREE THEY ARE...:))
you get the advantage of seeing the elite players of the game play,,,:)
THAT SHOULD BE HOW YOU LEARN BY WATCHING WHAT THEY DID...:eek:
yes the commentators give incite to the thinking of an experienced player
and give you a few options from their eyes
but often they have no clue what the pro shot
and say WHAT A GREAT SHOT !!!! YAHOOO!!!!!
because they didnt see it
SO
IF YOU BUY THE VIDEOS BASED ON WHO IS COMMENTATING
to me your priorities are wrong
no questrion the commentators can provide the iceing on the cake
BUT THEY ARE NOT THE CAKE
i will admit the commentators add to the value of the dvd because of their insight and give added incentive to buy some matches
jmho
icbw
:)

Larry,

You are correct to a small degree but here's where you veer off course. When I spend $20 on a DVD I don't want to hear two commentators obviously trying to show everyone how much they know.

The commentators in any sport should be a complement to the match at hand not a distraction to it. They should be making the players and the game the most important thing. Quite often we see AccuStats commentators drawing lines all over the screen as they argue with each other. This got so bad several years ago that I sent a letter to Pat Fleming complaining about it. It slacked off after that.

Great announcers make the game the thing, not themselves.

Ernie Harwell for Tiger's baseball: "He stood there like a house by the side of the road and watched that one go by".

Bruce Martyn for Red Wings hockey: "He gets back up, he shoots, he scorrrrrrrrrrrrres".

Pocket billiards is doomed to suffer from poor commentators due to the fact that probably not a single commentator ever actually went to a public speaking school to learn how to commentate. We should be able to listen to the commentary when we spend our money on the DVD's and not have it distract from the players and the match.

P.S. I do not buy AccuStats DVD's to learn anything, I buy them to enjoy watching them.

P.Ps. I have more than 200 AccuStats DVD's and have a well-paid for opinion.

Dennis
 

Cory in dc

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If you can show me where anyone has said that, I'll pull up a chair and we can laugh together, Rob.

I think I read someone post yesterday that Efren wasn't good in the late game. I disagree.

But of course, Efren probably does have less experience with the late game (relatively speaking) because he gets out so damn much!
 

LSJohn

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I think I read someone post yesterday that Efren wasn't good in the late game. I disagree.

But of course, Efren probably does have less experience with the late game (relatively speaking) because he gets out so damn much!

If Efren has late-game deficiencies, I can't see them, unless "late game" starts when he's up 5-2 or more. If he's down 5-2 or more he has as good a chance -- no, better chance -- to win than anyone else on the planet.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
Larry,

You are correct to a small degree but here's where you veer off course. When I spend $20 on a DVD I don't want to hear two commentators obviously trying to show everyone how much they know.

The commentators in any sport should be a complement to the match at hand not a distraction to it. They should be making the players and the game the most important thing. Quite often we see AccuStats commentators drawing lines all over the screen as they argue with each other. This got so bad several years ago that I sent a letter to Pat Fleming complaining about it. It slacked off after that.

Great announcers make the game the thing, not themselves.

Ernie Harwell for Tiger's baseball: "He stood there like a house by the side of the road and watched that one go by".

Bruce Martyn for Red Wings hockey: "He gets back up, he shoots, he scorrrrrrrrrrrrres".

Pocket billiards is doomed to suffer from poor commentators due to the fact that probably not a single commentator ever actually went to a public speaking school to learn how to commentate. We should be able to listen to the commentary when we spend our money on the DVD's and not have it distract from the players and the match.

P.S. I do not buy AccuStats DVD's to learn anything, I buy them to enjoy watching them.

P.Ps. I have more than 200 AccuStats DVD's and have a well-paid for opinion.

Dennis
let me start with the part i bolded from you
i do expect to learn from the videos i buy
BOTH FROM THE COMMENTATORS AND THE PLAYERS
i do not know what i was thinking
when i first posted this thread
it was after 9 pm when my brain has gone asleep..:(..:eek:..:eek:...:eek:
for the record
I DO BELIEVE THE COMMENTATORS ARE AN ADDED VALUE TO THE MATCH
where else can you listen to the perspective of legends most of the time and at the least pros who are alot better than
you????
how can that not be beneficial??
so for any commentator who may be offended from my original post
i apologize
and also i do not see the reason why this thread should have been resurrected in the first place
:confused:
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Detroit,Michigan
let me start with the part i bolded from you
i do expect to learn from the videos i buy
BOTH FROM THE COMMENTATORS AND THE PLAYERS
i do not know what i was thinking
when i first posted this thread
it was after 9 pm when my brain has gone asleep..:(..:eek:..:eek:...:eek:
for the record
I DO BELIEVE THE COMMENTATORS ARE AN ADDED VALUE TO THE MATCH
where else can you listen to the perspective of legends most of the time and at the least pros who are alot better than
you????
how can that not be beneficial??
so for any commentator who may be offended from my original post
i apologize
and also i do not see the reason why this thread should have been resurrected in the first place
:confused:

Larry,

When I saw it I looked through it and saw that I had not responded in it. That's why I did. My opinion is as valid as any in this thread. It all comes down to spending money wisely.

Dennis
 

Jeff sparks

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Well, since it was resurrected, I'll throw in my 02 cents worth.


I really enjoy watching top one pocket being played, for the beauty of the game and as a learning tool.

I also enjoy listening to good commentary. For me, the enjoyment level is greatly enhanced when the commentary is both informative and spontaneous. It's always better for me when it's balanced with levity and the occasional road story.

Dry commentary goes to mute and up table games get fast forwarded, I'm 72, my time and my tolerance are short!:):):). My 02 cents :):):)
 

Disco Dave

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Commentators

Commentators

There was a russet potato married to an Idaho potato and they had a little baby sweet potato. The baby sweet potato said to her mother one day "When I grow up I want to marry Dan Rather".

The mother russet potato looked at her sadly and said "Oh honey, you can't do that. He's just a common-tater"
 
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LSJohn

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There was a russet potato married to an Idaho potato and they had a little baby sweet potato. The baby sweet potato said to her mother one day "When I grow up I want to marry Dan Rather".

The mother russet potato looked at her sadly and said "Oh honey, you can't do that. He's just a common-tater"

I see you have a very strong opinion about this subject. :)
 

lll

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vero beach fl
There was a russet potato married to an Idaho potato and they had a little baby sweet potato. The baby sweet potato said to her mother one day "When I grow up I want to marry Dan Rather".

The mother russet potato looked at her sadly and said "Oh honey, you can't do that. He's just a common-tater"

DAVE
the more i read your posts
you are OK in my book.......:D
 

gulfportdoc

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Gulfport, Mississippi
There was a russet potato married to an Idaho potato and they had a little baby sweet potato. The baby sweet potato said to her mother one day "When I grow up I want to marry Dan Rather".

The mother russet potato looked at her sadly and said "Oh honey, you can't do that. He's just a common-tater"
Dave, smack yourself on the wrist, then go to your room....:D

(Cute joke)

~Doc
 
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