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  #31  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:44 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
I'm not saying it's what I would choose to shoot here..but as I said in my opening post, there's one real good move here, and it's not coming off of the 10 and into the stack - that shot would leave an escape route of banking the 9 straight back whilst leaving the cueball on the head rail, or 2-railing the 11...

My move is to thin the 8 and drop down two rails to freeze up behind the 12ball - the opponent would be in big trouble from there.

- Ghost

P.S. Btw, the 8 was/is makeable - but you'd have to twist it.
IMO, you must go offensively here the window of opportunity is presenting itself take advantage of it while it's open, especially considering your ability to preserve your position in the process.

If the 9ball doesn't pass the 6ball into your pocket then your shot weakens your position. If the 9ball passes the 6ball then your shot becomes very viable but I still like banking the 7ball mainly because I have the skills to execute the option a high degree of the time.

Your option is a good option for players who are uncomfortable choosing the 7ball option. There's a big difference with the amount of pressure you put on your opponent looking at the results of both the safety off the 8ball option and the 7ball bank option. With your option (providing the 9ball passes the 6ball) the road to a win will start for you with a difficult shot off the back rail that in most cases would be free but still a difficult shot nonetheless. With the 7ball option results you will be confronted with basically the same results you would off your option, now with the 8ball still in play and the 7ball near your pocket. The amount of pressure on your opponent is extremely high with really nowhere to turn.

Dr. Bill

Last edited by wincardona; 09-11-2019 at 02:00 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:57 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
As I'm sure you all will agree, being at the table affords a far better assessment of the proper choice of shot. Given what we have to work with, and to Ghost's credit, he usually provides multiple images from various angles allowing us as good an idea of the position of the balls as we can hope for.

As others have suggested I too like the bank on the 8 ball but sending the cue ball long into the upper left quadrant would not be my first choice. The prospects of scoring large numbers of balls should the 8 fall is huge if the cue ball is stunned for an easy shot on the 6. This shot has little to no risk. Keep positive when a strong aggressive shot presents itself. Setting up a move is fine but the ultimate goal is to score 8 balls.

My second choice might be to bank the 2 ball off the bottom half of either the 10 or 15 balls drifting the cue ball forward. This too is an aggressive shot with high scoring possibilities.

These two shots would be where I would first set my sights. After that should I deside to pass on either of these two shots I would then consider banking the 7 with primary focus on controlling the cue ball into the upper left corner area.

Tom
Tom as much as I would like to agree with you on the 2ball option it doesn't look like the angle presenting itself sends the 2ball toward the 15ball unless you cut the 2ball to the right which would then create problems with controlling the cue ball. If the angle was such that you could go forward and spin back under the 3ball sending the 2ball into the 15ball then this option becomes super strong and my number one choice. As far as banking the 8ball it needs to be twisted and to twist it with a high ball may be too difficult to control and make the 8ball. I say this because you will most likely lose your position if the 8ball bank doesn't fall.

If I'm going after a bank that needs twisted then I'm choosing the 3ball bank because the degree of difficulty between the two banks are somewhat close and the 3ball bank offers you better protection with preserving your position when the bank is missed.

Your thoughts on this?

Dr. Bill
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  #33  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:06 PM
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cincy_kid cincy_kid is offline
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the reason I didn't like the 7 is because it looks to me as if you have to hit it too hard to get the 7 down close to your hole. The CB is going to rocket off your long rail and shoot over to his long rail (even with the high LHE), so I was afraid it would bounce off his side rail and sell out a shot on the 9.

edit -- looking at it again, you will keep him in that upper left quadrant which doesn't give a shot at the 9 or a very good one any way. But I still like being 2 inches from the OB vs 4 feet.
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:21 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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the tony shot would be to bank the 2 ball into the 4, 5 combo and make it and run out.

all these shots have a skill level and a confidence level, and a level of safety.

so each persons ability and stomach will determine which is best.

overall learning the best shot for your ability and having the stomach to take it will give you the best percentage chance of winning the game.
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  #35  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:47 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Tom as much as I would like to agree with you on the 2ball option it doesn't look like the angle presenting itself sends the 2ball toward the 15ball unless you cut the 2ball to the right which would then create problems with controlling the cue ball. If the angle was such that you could go forward and spin back under the 3ball sending the 2ball into the 15ball then this option becomes super strong and my number one choice. As far as banking the 8ball it needs to be twisted and to twist it with a high ball may be too difficult to control and make the 8ball. I say this because you will most likely lose your position if the 8ball bank doesn't fall.

If I'm going after a bank that needs twisted then I'm choosing the 3ball bank because the degree of difficulty between the two banks are somewhat close and the 3ball bank offers you better protection with preserving your position when the bank is missed.

Your thoughts on this?

Dr. Bill
Bill, I don't think the straight back bank on the 8 needs much of a twist but I could be wrong on that. That is why being at the table helps determine these wwyd situations so much easier. Still given what we have to work with it appears to me the 8 can be banked cleanly while drifting the cue ball forward and slightly to the left providing a good angle for the followup shot on the 6 and a safe position should the 8 not fall. I don't think a follow stroke on that 8 ball will allow enough twist to pocket the ball but it would be a good strategy move.

As far as the bank carom on the 2 ball, again shots like that require more information than a couple pictures can provide. My point in both options is the thought behind the shots given the paths be available.

Unfortunately, we on the side lines cannot possibly know for certain what can or cannot be done with the limited information we are provided. That said these wwyd thread can be both entertaining and educational if we make a few positional allowances.

Tom
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:22 PM
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Island Drive Island Drive is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
If the 8ball had room to go then that obviously would be the best shot hands down, however, it doesn't which puts that option at # 2 or 3. Banking the 3ball would be my second choice slightly over the 8ball option, banking the 3ball is mostly about cue ball control, which means this shot cannot be hit hard enough to pocket it a higher percentage of the time. That would be the problem with playing the 3ball and playing a good cue ball, you are not going to get the turn on the 3ball hitting it at pocket speed that's needed to pocket the bank. Playing the cue ball to the side rail near the side pocket would be a good spot to leave it. Playing off the 10ball into the stack is mostly always a good option IMO but in this situation you are positioned to apply more pressure on your opponent and possibly put him in serious trouble without losing your position, which leads me to my number one option..

Banking the 7ball. This option is not the easiest to execute but the reward is much higher than any other option. Equally as important as the accuracy of the hit is controlling the cue ball to the upper left quadrant of the table. If you're able to control the cue ball to there than you can afford to lose accuracy with the hit. As long as you can control the cue ball and manage getting the 7ball close to your pocket than your opponent is in serious trouble. That would be as you say in Chess...Check. Check Mate is just around the corner.

Dr. Bill
Why I chose the shot that Frank pointed out was because of ball Speed. This 3 rail cue ball, ''dumping whitey into the corner'' is at the core of all great rotation players games. This is an easy shot to ''just miss'' intentionally.
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:56 PM
Tobermory Tobermory is online now
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As usual, Iím bewildered by some of the recommendations offered. Probably explains why Iím just a wannabe champion.

For me, the obvious choice is the 3 ball bank shot. It lies high enough and nearly perfect for the angle and speed required to make it or get it real close. Iíd hit the cue ball slightly above center with enough pace to create some collision induced throw that will impart left spin on the 3 ball when it hits the rail, and Iíd attempt to get the cue ball somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd diamonds, a few inches off the rail. If I make the 3, I can shoot the 2 and draw it 2 rails out for the 8 or 6, and I should be able to make those and get up table for more. If I miss the 3, the stack will block the take out shot and there is no bank except the 12, but Iíd be hoping my opponent took that shot. (Some of you might not be willing to take the chance that heíd make the 12, but the risk reward analysis looks good to me.) Because I want to make a bunch of balls off this shot, I wouldnít two rail the cue ball onto the back of the stack.

The 8: not a hard bank to make or get close, but I donít like what comes next. If I drift the cue ball down to get safe behind the 12, I have to be careful not to leave a shot on the 12 in case I miss, and even if I make the 8, Iíll either have no shot from behind the 12, or Iíll have a long cut on the7, or perhaps a swipe at the 4-15-10 combo (which wonít go but looks to be reasonable safe.) Any way you look at this option, Iím not likely to make more than the 8. If I stun the 8 ball and try to make shape for the 6, if I miss the 8 Iíll be leaving a bank on the 6, so unless Iíve left the 8 super close to my pocket, heíll have a good shot at making the 6 and following up with the 10, and more.

The 7: a much harder bank to make and control the cue ball than the 8. Makeable, for sure, but if I leave the cue ball down by the 12, I wonít have an easy follow up; if I miss, and I donít sell out the 12, my opponent is in a little trouble, but can probably survive by coming off the 1 ball and drifting behind the 7 left near my hole.

The 10: skinning it and leaving the cue ball behind the stack looks pretty easy to execute. If Iím the Ghost coming to the table after that shot, Iíd slow roll onto the 12 and try to leave the cue ball on the short rail, creating a pressure packed long shot opportunity on the 7 or 11 for John that would be real trouble if he missed.

The 2: it just doesnít look likely to me that you could protect against some kind of bank shot if the 2 or 10 donít luck into the pocket. Why take this chance when the other options are much better?
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  #38  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:58 PM
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cincy_kid cincy_kid is offline
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Originally Posted by Tobermory View Post
As usual, Iím bewildered by some of the recommendations offered. Probably explains why Iím just a wannabe champion.

For me, the obvious choice is the 3 ball bank shot. It lies high enough and nearly perfect for the angle and speed required to make it or get it real close. Iíd hit the cue ball slightly above center with enough pace to create some collision induced throw that will impart left spin on the 3 ball when it hits the rail, and Iíd attempt to get the cue ball somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd diamonds, a few inches off the rail. If I make the 3, I can shoot the 2 and draw it 2 rails out for the 8 or 6, and I should be able to make those and get up table for more. If I miss the 3, the stack will block the take out shot and there is no bank except the 12, but Iíd be hoping my opponent took that shot. (Some of you might not be willing to take the chance that heíd make the 12, but the risk reward analysis looks good to me.) Because I want to make a bunch of balls off this shot, I wouldnít two rail the cue ball onto the back of the stack.

The 8: not a hard bank to make or get close, but I donít like what comes next. If I drift the cue ball down to get safe behind the 12, I have to be careful not to leave a shot on the 12 in case I miss, and even if I make the 8, Iíll either have no shot from behind the 12, or Iíll have a long cut on the7, or perhaps a swipe at the 4-15-10 combo (which wonít go but looks to be reasonable safe.) Any way you look at this option, Iím not likely to make more than the 8. If I stun the 8 ball and try to make shape for the 6, if I miss the 8 Iíll be leaving a bank on the 6, so unless Iíve left the 8 super close to my pocket, heíll have a good shot at making the 6 and following up with the 10, and more.

The 7: a much harder bank to make and control the cue ball than the 8. Makeable, for sure, but if I leave the cue ball down by the 12, I wonít have an easy follow up; if I miss, and I donít sell out the 12, my opponent is in a little trouble, but can probably survive by coming off the 1 ball and drifting behind the 7 left near my hole.

The 10: skinning it and leaving the cue ball behind the stack looks pretty easy to execute. If Iím the Ghost coming to the table after that shot, Iíd slow roll onto the 12 and try to leave the cue ball on the short rail, creating a pressure packed long shot opportunity on the 7 or 11 for John that would be real trouble if he missed.

The 2: it just doesnít look likely to me that you could protect against some kind of bank shot if the 2 or 10 donít luck into the pocket. Why take this chance when the other options are much better?
good analysis counselor...
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  #39  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:41 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Gentlemen,

Let's say you bank the eight and get it close, but you park the cue ball behind the 12 where a back cut is not feasible. What is the defense to that with the eight near the pocket? Isn't it check mate from there?

All of these options are possible, but the only one I see that is check mate is the eight lagged near your hole and the cue finding cover under the 12.

What am I missing? This is chess, not checkers. I'm trying to out think my opponent and put him in an untenable position.

Banking the three isn't the hanger many are suggesting. It's pretty low and doesn't have to twist back, but it's an ok shot. I'm just thinking if it doesn't go, he can just kick it in and you made one ball.

The two is the most aggressive option, but it could leave a return and really doesn't have to go unless you get lucky. More like pinball than chess.

Going off the ten invites him banking the nine and giving you a blood test on the end rail.

The seven is good if you have the talent to do all you have to do to execute that shot. Many in this forum don't.

I suggest every member of this forum could lag the eight, hide the cue and harvest the balls next shot.
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  #40  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:17 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
I'm not saying it's what I would choose to shoot here (like Ben & Chris, I'd probably choose to twist bank the 5)..but as I said in my opening post, there's one real good move here, and it's not coming off of the 10 and into the stack - that shot would leave an escape route of banking the 9 straight back whilst leaving the cueball on the head rail, or 2-railing the 11...

My move is to thin the 8 and drop down two rails to freeze up behind the 12ball - the opponent would be in big trouble from there.
...
Those return shots aren't very good, unless a guy would be way behind.

But I do like your CB thinning off the 8, two rails behind the 12. It requires a very thin hit on the 8, but if successful, it's a barn burner, like you say.

~Doc
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