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  #11  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:51 PM
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sneakynito sneakynito is offline
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This is why we can't have nice things.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:07 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobermory View Post
Amen.

That said, pool gamblers have a long and well documented history of dumping and doing business, and we all know it, which does make it hard to know what to believe even when it is happening right in front of us or on a stream. This history has pretty much poisoned the well, and has deterred most of the main stream sponsors and media companies from any participation in US events. Maybe Matchroom can change the texture of this problem going forward.


Also: the money prizes in pro sports, and the TV advertising and rights revenues, are paid by corporate sponsors, not put up by the players or their backers as a wager. Isn't that a fundamental difference to what happens in these made for TV pool events?
The money being mentioned is from the stream. Customers tune in to watch the event, and the promoter shares the revenue with the players. It is not coming from the players or their stake horses. The players can opt to gamble and take a percentage of what is actually paid, or they can take a flat fee from the streamer. The room owner, as sponsor, often also sells seating for the event, which is also put in for the appearance fee. That is their appearance fee, or guaranteed money.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:13 PM
keoneyo keoneyo is offline
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Originally Posted by BRLongArm View Post
The NBA, NFL, UFC, MLB and every other major sports league makes money on TV broadcasts. This money is shared with the athletes. Why is it a problem in pool?

There is no unifying body for pool so promoters attempt to bring us quality content on their own initiative. They share the revenue stream with the players. Do you think that because the players get guaranteed money, they are not trying to win their matches?

Being a pool player is beyond hard. Some of the greatest players in the world can't even afford a place to live. You have to finish in the top two or three in a tournament just to make a modest profit. If they are asking for a piece of the pie, it's only crumbs anyway.

I would hope that some of you would refrain from implying the worst in people without knowing them, the facts of the match or the people putting up the money or the stream. It's reckless and it's malignant. On one hand you complain that pool is on its ass. When someone comes in to try to put on a quality match, the same guys say it's not a real match because players are making money. Remember your moms advice: If you can't say something nice about someone, Shut the **** up. Rant over.
Wheres the like button? I remember when some Aholes was putting Pat Fleming at AccuStats down. Yet he was giving players plane fare, room and board, and $1K to a winner of every match. Haters gotta hate.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:18 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Maybe if players were not in such a desperate position all the time, they wouldn't be tempted to do business. Maybe, just maybe, a guaranteed appearance fee makes sure the player won't have to sleep in his car and he will actually be able to pay his bills. If the player knows he is going to get $2,500 or $5,000 to display his skills to the world, win or lose, he can just relax and play his best game.

To be clear, this is not an excuse. But it may explain it.

But don't think that game fixing is only in pool. Soccer has been rocked by game fixing in the last couple of years, and tennis is undergoing the same scandal right now. This is not a pool problem. It's a human problem, friends.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:30 PM
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Mr.J Mr.J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobermory View Post
Amen.

That said, pool gamblers have a long and well documented history of dumping and doing business, and we all know it, which does make it hard to know what to believe even when it is happening right in front of us or on a stream.
Same goes for NCAA x 10 so dirty the sweat dripping down will rot the tops of yer socks right off! What you are saying can be said for most sports, the brush stroke is to broad imo. I believe when you say the dumping stuff, it is more polarized because we are such a small community in comparison to corporate sports where Americans worship overpaid idiots and the corporations will squash any dirt before it leaks.

There is so much dumping in flopper, i mean soccer, and every single sport. Guess what, money corrupts the best of us lol....i have a price, do you? lol
You can add poker to that list, in fact you can edit the definition of collusion and ad poker to the example sentence in webster's. As a player we know this happens far to often, but the mainstream public really does not, yet it was televised till everyone would became blue in the face. Pool is like bamboo, where as every other sport seems to be easier to bend. That why i love pool so damn much.

( not directed to you Tober, just a general theme and thought i see once a week in pool forums) Last thing to add, ever notice the very people who cant stand PPV are the same people who bitch about pool not getting anywhere, they will also complain about prices for anything! Ive lurked for so long on here and AZB that i could, if i hated time, i could compile a list of the same usual suspects over a span of 5 years and list what they have said, same shit over and over. Imagine complaining for over 5 years about PPV. And then consider how time is money, me spending 25 bucks to watch some pool and help the community vs some nit complaining about ppv . cmon! lol

Last edited by Mr.J; 09-16-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2019, 05:46 PM
Tobermory Tobermory is offline
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I really must not understand the economics of these streams, and I'd be grateful for an education:

1. What does it mean when the poster says "$20,000 entry." Are both sides putting up 20k each?

2. Are the players putting up any of their own money? If so, how much? Do the players have backers that are putting up money? If so, how much?
Is there actually any gambling going on here?

3. Does the outcome of the match determine how much each player gets in the end?

4. Can there possibly be $40,000 in revenues, PPV and sponsorships and seat sales generated by the stream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRLongArm View Post
The money being mentioned is from the stream. Customers tune in to watch the event, and the promoter shares the revenue with the players. It is not coming from the players or their stake horses. The players can opt to gamble and take a percentage of what is actually paid, or they can take a flat fee from the streamer. The room owner, as sponsor, often also sells seating for the event, which is also put in for the appearance fee. That is their appearance fee, or guaranteed money.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:02 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtompilot View Post
Iíll take Scott for a 100.
OK, Jim, I'll take Chip for $100 so we can sweat. Confirm anytime before the end of the first game. If you confirm here, you don't need me to re-confirm, we're on.
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:12 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobermory View Post
I really must not understand the economics of these streams, and I'd be grateful for an education:

1. What does it mean when the poster says "$20,000 entry." Are both sides putting up 20k each? Yes, the backers are putting that up.

2. Are the players putting up any of their own money? If so, how much? Do the players have backers that are putting up money? If so, how much?
Is there actually any gambling going on here? Why do you care if the players are putting money up or not? I don't know if they are, but I am sure they are putting up what they can.

3. Does the outcome of the match determine how much each player gets in the end? The money in the middle, of course. Winner gets it all.

4. Can there possibly be $40,000 in revenues, PPV and sponsorships and seat sales generated by the stream?
No. The 40K is in the middle and being bet by the players/stake horses. What you don't get is that the players are getting a guaranteed appearance fee from the room and the stream. That is their guaranteed money, separate and apart from the gambling. I don't know the amount, but it is enough that the players will allow the match to be streamed. They get their money for playing, regardless of whether they win or lose.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:36 PM
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Miller Miller is offline
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chip with up 3 quick games and to break....
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:40 PM
jtompilot jtompilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSJohn View Post
OK, Jim, I'll take Chip for $100 so we can sweat. Confirm anytime before the end of the first game. If you confirm here, you don't need me to re-confirm, we're on.
Confirmed. Good luck. Not really

I just landed. Did they start
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