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  #1  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:43 AM
bobt64 bobt64 is offline
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Default Rule question

I was watching a 2019 DC match, sorry don't remember the players, and something very unusual happened. Player A was breaking and he miscued and missed the rack, didn't move a ball. My first thought was he owes a ball and Player B plays from were the cued ended up. This wasn't what happened, Player B was given the break and there was no penalty ball. Am I missing something?

Last edited by bobt64; 07-19-2019 at 09:44 AM. Reason: more info
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2019, 10:02 AM
lll lll is offline
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My thinking agrees with you
I will be curious to see what others come up with
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:34 AM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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I made a suggestion to Steve, that the rules should reflect that when the rack is not contacted on the break; the player re-breaks and is accessed a foul, -1pt.

Occurrences such as this are very rare, but when it happens then it is nice to have a solution! Whitey
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:25 AM
lll lll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
I made a suggestion to Steve, that the rules should reflect that when the rack is not contacted on the break; the player re-breaks and is accessed a foul, -1pt.

Occurrences such as this are very rare, but when it happens then it is nice to have a solution! Whitey
Why give the person who committed the foul a reward of breaking again ?
During the game if player A miscuescand doesn’t touch a ball
playerB would play from where the cue ball ended and player A would have a foul penalty
My thinking this should be treated the same
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Interesting, I could not find anything in the WPA general rules or the CSI pool rules -- both of which are generally pretty thorough.

I know in American Rotation the rule was, if you did not touch the rack it wasn't a break and the same shooter simply re-breaks. If you miscued and just nicked the rack, sorry that was your break lol.

I did see in the WPA rules if you grab the cue ball that you shot as your break shot, then that is considered an unsportsmanlike foul.

I would not argue against a one ball (normal foul) penalty if the breaker fails to touch anything, with the breaker then re-attempting their break shot, but now they owe a ball to start the game. That's not much of a penalty if the original breaker still gets to re-break.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:08 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
Why give the person who committed the foul a reward of breaking again ?
During the game if player A miscuescand doesn’t touch a ball
playerB would play from where the cue ball ended and player A would have a foul penalty
My thinking this should be treated the same
I was with you on this in my original suggestion to Steve as to how to treat this foul, but I then after much consideration realized that it is just to much to give up, passing the break.

Standard OP is alternating break, I would keep it that way and just access a foul!

Just hit the rack and get the game going! thanks, Whitey
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:13 PM
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sneakynito sneakynito is online now
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This isn't covered in our One Pocket rules page?

"On the break, the cue ball may contact either a cushion or any ball in the rack first, but in either case, after contacting at least one ball, an object ball must be pocketed, or the cue ball or at least one object ball must contact a rail, otherwise it is a one foul penalty. As long as a legal stroke is employed from behind the head string on the break, the incoming player must play the balls where they lie – there are no re-racks for a pocket scratch or failure to contact a cushion or pocket a ball on the break."

Seems clear to me. It's obviously a foul because you didn't meet the first criteria.
And incoming player would have to play the balls as they lay. In this case, they just happen to lay still in racked position. Play the cue ball as it lies like any other table scratch.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:33 PM
jtompilot jtompilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneakynito View Post
This isn't covered in our One Pocket rules page?

"On the break, the cue ball may contact either a cushion or any ball in the rack first, but in either case, after contacting at least one ball, an object ball must be pocketed, or the cue ball or at least one object ball must contact a rail, otherwise it is a one foul penalty. As long as a legal stroke is employed from behind the head string on the break, the incoming player must play the balls where they lie – there are no re-racks for a pocket scratch or failure to contact a cushion or pocket a ball on the break."

Seems clear to me. It's obviously a foul because you didn't meet the first criteria.
And incoming player would have to play the balls as they lay. In this case, they just happen to lay still in racked position. Play the cue ball as it lies like any other table scratch.
That’s the only way it should be played
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2019, 07:38 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtompilot View Post
That’s the only way it should be played
What if it is not legally stroked and not legally behind the line? None of what is written in our rules covers when the rack is not contacted at all. You can not compare a scratch off the rack or not getting a rail after contacting the rack to 'not contacting the rack at all'. Whitey
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:33 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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simple in 9 ball or 1 pocket the game does not begin until the cueball strikes the rack. fair for all.
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