Referee or CAMERA?

JoeyA

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Jun 21, 2004
Messages
318
From
Metairie, LA
Last week I was playing in a local tournament and a "close" shot was being played and one of the guys used a camera on his cell phone to video tape the shot. It was hard to determine with the naked eye to determine if the cue ball hit the object ball first or the impeding ball first. The video of the shot took care of that when he re-played the video in slow motion. Very useful and effective imo.

Have any of you used cameras for taking video of shots where a foul might be committed?

JoeyA
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jul 8, 2017
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Klamath Falls, Or.
Hi Joey, good to see you threading.
A video vs. a referee, I'd take the video especially slow motion if it is taken at the right angle. Bcapl ref's are trained to stand in the appropriate spot to best view the shot. Bcapl/CSI does not allow cell phones out on the floor, plus they must be turned off, so video shots is just not going to happen in their tournaments. But some matches are streamed but players and even some ref's are not conscious of the fact that they can review a video of the matches to see if a foul occurred or not. In Bcapl the referee's are schooled that they can reviewed a videoed match or to poll spectators to help determine and after the fact call.

I was watching Skyler playing someone One Pocket and he kicked at a ball and caught the rail just before the ball and thus did not get a rail, and left Skyler bad. Skyler called a foul but the guy did not except it. I believe it cost Skyler the match, for the spotted ball would of left Skyler a shot. But it was videoed and thus it could of been reviewed, if Skyler knew to do it.

in reality I am not in favor of allowing this instance replay. The most grievous opponent plays against me has occurred when the shooter playing a shot when they have to shoot past a non-legal ball to contact their ball and then the cue ball contacts the illegal ball and I call a foul, and they respond; "it is not a foul, for I hit it with my stick". Cheaters, so how can you be prepared for this type of cheating, you would have to video tape the entire match. IMO.
I wrote up a rule that would eliminate this type of cheating but bcapl did not adopt it.
Players could wear a GO Pro on their heads. thanks, Whitey
 

beatle

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good way to ruin any fun in the tournament. but if you are going to do something like this you also need a large penalty for the person that asks for the replay if he is wrong.
otherwise people will call them for other reasons and also slow the game down. pool works fine now and it did better years back with few arguments.

in any sport you have to suffer some bad calls, thats part of the game.
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
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florence, colorado
Usta

Usta

good way to ruin any fun in the tournament. but if you are going to do something like this you also need a large penalty for the person that asks for the replay if he is wrong.
otherwise people will call them for other reasons and also slow the game down. pool works fine now and it did better years back with few arguments.

in any sport you have to suffer some bad calls, thats part of the game.

cyclops works good....
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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From
Klamath Falls, Or.
Players see fouls that never happen, and if you play pool you know this happens, and it could ruin what otherwise should be an enjoyable game. To show how extreme it can get, I was playing a regional team event 9-ball, I broke the balls and made the classical 1 ball in the side, my opponent, the captain of the other team, called a foul and said; "I did not hit the 1 ball on the break,", and he was adamant to no end. Finally after 5 minutes of this, his own team had to tell him; "that yes I did hit the 1 ball".
He is an honest as can get of a player but I think being the captain, he had put so much self pressure on himself that he honest thought I did not hit the 1. Whitey
There are times a video would be nice! lol !!!
 

darmoose

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Baltimore, MD
good way to ruin any fun in the tournament. but if you are going to do something like this you also need a large penalty for the person that asks for the replay if he is wrong.
otherwise people will call them for other reasons and also slow the game down. pool works fine now and it did better years back with few arguments.

in any sport you have to suffer some bad calls, thats part of the game.

Agree totally with this comment. All these discussions/arguments about minutia fouls and transgressions accomplish nothing and tend to ruin the game at hand. They hardly ever change the outcome of a match. As you say, we all need to realize that there is no such thing as perfection, there will always be errors and different interpretations of what happened, and so it is best to adopt an attitude of acceptance knowing that the errors and rolls will tend to even out.

It may be a stretch, but I liken this phenomena to what is going on with our litigious society where no transgression, no mater how small can be let go. Particuarly in our political world no one will give and inch nor compromise on anything. Too bad for everybody.
 

gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
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Gulfport, Mississippi
good way to ruin any fun in the tournament. but if you are going to do something like this you also need a large penalty for the person that asks for the replay if he is wrong.
otherwise people will call them for other reasons and also slow the game down. pool works fine now and it did better years back with few arguments.

in any sport you have to suffer some bad calls, thats part of the game.
Good point.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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From
Klamath Falls, Or.
Playing a 9-ball regional event, I was on the far end of the table away from the seating position of my opponent, who was seated. I had to skim past an illegal ball to hit my ball, which I did and made it. He called a foul, and stated that my cb hit the illegal ball and it moved. He being at least fifteen feet away and his view is of my cb crossing across and in front of the ball he said I contacted. I had to call a ref. and eventually the ref. chewed him out, and I out of discuss told him; "ok, you can have the call" and its your shot, "I do not need to cheat to win". He ruined what otherwise would have been a good match, by him not getting up and viewing the shot, and that is what the ref. told him. He was upset the whole match, and he thinks I cheat!
Players need to know the rules, for he had ever right to get up and view the shot. I would of needed a video of it to prove that he was seeing things that never happened! Another example of a honest player wanting to win so bad they actually see fouls that never happen. Whitey
 

JoeyA

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Jun 21, 2004
Messages
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From
Metairie, LA
Whitey,
My response below isn't necessarily directed at you.

Sometimes in a match there are times that a video of a close shot is needed. If you haven't seen a cell phone used for checking a "close hit" in slow motion, you are missing the boat. This method of confirmation is FASTER than you might think and it essentially removes most of the judgment that is put on the shoulders of the referee. IT WILL REDUCE ARGUMENTS and assuage hurt feelings and suspicions of skullduggery.

Cell phone ringers can be turned off while on the tournament floor. I can't imagine why cell phones are not used more often in tournament play. I can speak from personal experience, in local tournament play, the slow motion videos are accurate and effective for determining the legality of the shot.


JoeyA

Playing a 9-ball regional event, I was on the far end of the table away from the seating position of my opponent, who was seated. I had to skim past an illegal ball to hit my ball, which I did and made it. He called a foul, and stated that my cb hit the illegal ball and it moved. He being at least fifteen feet away and his view is of my cb crossing across and in front of the ball he said I contacted. I had to call a ref. and eventually the ref. chewed him out, and I out of discuss told him; "ok, you can have the call" and its your shot, "I do not need to cheat to win". He ruined what otherwise would have been a good match, by him not getting up and viewing the shot, and that is what the ref. told him. He was upset the whole match, and he thinks I cheat!
Players need to know the rules, for he had ever right to get up and view the shot. I would of needed a video of it to prove that he was seeing things that never happened! Another example of a honest player wanting to win so bad they actually see fouls that never happen. Whitey
 

baby huey

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These situations come up more in One Pocket than rotation games. Recently I was doing commentary with Daniel Busch (POV POOL) and a kick shot was called a foul by an opposing player. Daniel was asked to replay it SLOMO and it turned out to be a good hit, but very very close to a foul. Daniel used very good judgement by getting approval from both players before he replayed the shot. Probably live streamed matches should use this approach or the tournament director should make a rule about replays prior to the event.
 

cincy_kid

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Nov 23, 2015
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Cincinnati, OH
These situations come up more in One Pocket than rotation games. Recently I was doing commentary with Daniel Busch (POV POOL) and a kick shot was called a foul by an opposing player. Daniel was asked to replay it SLOMO and it turned out to be a good hit, but very very close to a foul. Daniel used very good judgement by getting approval from both players before he replayed the shot. Probably live streamed matches should use this approach or the tournament director should make a rule about replays prior to the event.

I like that Jerry...I always thought when there was a close call, just like in Football or other sports they could go to the replay video (in slow mo) and see which way the call should go. Almost like a challenge call in tennis.
 

El Chapo

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Oct 28, 2016
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If you are going to use video it would be more ideal to change the frame rate. I believe many iphones can do 120 frames per second, which is pretty darned good.
 
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