Handicaps list: Why how & when & some creativiy

johnnytronic said:

Being at the level I'm at, which is essentially "somewhere in the middle"

I constantly find myself in underdog matches against the players I need to beat in order to know "Hey I'm a little better this year"

I would like to compile a logical organized list of handicaps, my experience with them thus far and eventually get a value rating system worked out. Get this all organize in an excel like document.

I want logic objective criteria mixed in with creative subject criteria.
The creative aspect would be "how can I make this spot work for me better but determining ones character strengths and weakness"

I will be basing my percent value system on what the
book "Winning One Pocket" has logically came up with and we can refine from there.

Here is where I will start my value system at,
unless of course someone has a better idea.

Taken from Winning One pocket : 2nd Edition

"Lets take for an example, the one ball handicap 8-7.
If we divide the point ball being spotted by a total of 8 points that the opponent is required to make, we would arrive at the handicaps approximate value of 12.5%. On the otherhand, if the game was 9-8, instead of 8-7, the value of the spot would be only 11.1%. obvious choice to pick.

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johnnytronic said:

Being at the level I'm at, which is essentially "somewhere in the middle"

I constantly find myself in underdog matches against the players I need to beat in order to know "Hey I'm a little better this year"

I would like to compile a logical organized list of handicaps, my experience with them thus far and eventually get a value rating system worked out. Get this all organize in an excel like document.

I want logic objective criteria mixed in with creative subject criteria.
The creative aspect would be "how can I make this spot work for me better but determining ones character strengths and weakness"

I will be basing my percent value system on what the
book "Winning One Pocket" has logically came up with and we can refine from there.

Here is where I will start my value system at,
unless of course someone has a better idea.

Taken from Winning One pocket : 2nd Edition

"Lets take for an example, the one ball handicap 8-7.
If we divide the point ball being spotted by a total of 8 points that the opponent is required to make, we would arrive at the handicaps approximate value of 12.5%. On the otherhand, if the game was 9-8, instead of 8-7, the value of the spot would be only 11.1%. obvious choice to pick.

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Tom Wirth said:

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This is totally bogus. These percentages are correct and constant only if one ball could legally be pocketed per inning. Because each player's ability to string numerous balls vary, the value of a single ball will also vary.

Possessing the ability to overcome early deficits within a single inning changes the value for a single ball. Two top players of equal ability, one spotting the other 8-7 and playing one and stop has a 12.5% differential and the games will likely all be close affairs. These same two top players playing 8-7 in a standard game are going to frequently be running 6, 7, and 8 balls within a single inning, so the games will likely be lopsided. Therefore the handicap may become a factor in very few games.

This same principle applies to players of lesser skill sets too, but the value of that single ball increases with the diminished ability of the players.

So a one ball handicap will always have a different percentage value depending on the players abilities.

Tom

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chicagomike said:

I guess the question becomes what level of knowledge do you use as a starting point? Do you develop your baseline as the guy who knows ZERO about the game or has no ability at all? Or is it the guy who plays good 9 ball and is just learning 1p? Is it the great bank pool player who struggles with running balls? Where do you begin your charting of known abilities?Once you figure that out I think it will be easier to determine a chart of handicaps.

This sounds like a complicated project, but might be worth while if you can develop it. You're chart would definitely make it easier not to get robbed by a more advanced player.

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johnnytronic said:

This is an interesting perspective and a great consideration but one factor you keep mentioning that's not enough to hinge my direction on this project is "players of equal ability" Sure I can see players of "equal" ability spotting each other the first break, a ball maybe but that's where it ends with equal ability players.

It's only applicable for the barest of handicapp offerings, I'm trying to go deep and creative with spots like 1 hit and the pick and moving the cue ball
to a specific locations. I'm talking about playing players that are not even close to equal opponents. There has to be a mathematical starting point to quantify what the advantage is.

I know its complicated, the real reason is because of human emotions are essentially at play. If two machines were of exact knowledge and skill, out of hundred games it should be close to 50/50 being the break is always a big advantage.

We can start with what a ball should theoretically be valued at and begin to guesstimate from there. For example if a ball is worth 10%, two balls are obviously worth more. IF the breaks are worth 1.5 balls (more in my opinion)
then the breaks and having the ability to manipulate any other ball is going to be worth MORE.

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Tom Wirth said:

I use "equal ability" because it sets the handicap as the only variable. How else can the value of any handicap be measured?

Tom

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One Pocket Ghost said:

Yo johnnytronic...I'll be glad to help you out with your needed handicap for when you're playing the Ghost

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johnnytronic said:

As much as I want to purely look at this as math and be objective, as I begin to build the document, Its becoming challenging. Hence why this may not have been taken on in the past, it's too subjective.
I'm already stumbling on some new insights.
For example, just purely knowing that this manipulation or that manipulation in a handicap is worth more then another, has it's own inherent value.

For example Tom, what is one hit and the pick worth?

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Tom Wirth said:

Once again Johnny, more information is needed. It is not the same for all match-ups. This can be a powerful spot or it could be worth nothing at all.

I've played guys where their scratches didn't count and crushed them. These were guys who shot straight and had reasonable control of the cue ball but had no understanding of how to effectively use their handicap. In the right hands this can be an extremely potent weapon. IN the right hands the hit and a pick can be a strong handicap too but it won't do much good to the guy who can't do much with it. should he be playing a better player. Many of these kinds of handicaps are traps. They appear appealing but in the end aren't worth much to the uneducated player.

Tom

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