Cornbread vs. Bugs 1991 Legends of One Pocket

Cowboy Dennis said:

Or, as Billy would say: "Like Moses repositioning the Red Sea"

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In my original post to this thread I suggested to shoot the solid ball straight ahead and TWO rail it foward toward the 14 ball. I would not shoot it one rail to get the 14 ball out because of the kiss Ghost says is looming. With the two railer the solid ball after contacting 14 will head more to the middle of the table allowing you to stick the cue ball on the long rail.

Frank Almanza said:

I would not shoot it one rail to get the 14 ball out because of the kiss Ghost says is looming.

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So nice to see someone of Frank's caliber/experience recognize the very likely kiss in this - "brilliant shot"...

- Ghost

Frank Almanza said:

In my original post to this thread I suggested to shoot the solid ball straight ahead and TWO rail it foward toward the 14 ball. I would not shoot it one rail to get the 14 ball out because of the kiss Ghost says is looming. With the two railer the solid ball after contacting 14 will head more to the middle of the table allowing you to stick the cue ball on the long rail.

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if you go back and look closely at dennis diagram of the shot red DID HIT IT ONE RAIL but followed the q to the SHORT RAIL.
Frank you wanted to stick the q on the long rail so you wanted the solid to go more towards the middle.
Red wanted to go foward with the q to the short rail so he hit it one rail so the solid woul come closer to the long rail
since red hit this shot alot he obviously as dennis said had a feel for the channel he could get thru safely.
ghost not trying to knock your action but just because red could do it doesnt mean setting it up and having someone who doesnt have a feel for the shot would get reds results.
let me ask the question a different way

would you give red the same proposition to shoot that shot 10 times??

One Pocket Ghost said:

No surprise here - the oldtimers club is sticking together (and not very cogently, I might add)...

Well then, in response...

I say, the kiss is looming...

And I say, it's not remotely, a brilliant shot...for one thing, anybody knows that one all-important aspect of a "brilliant shot" is that it doesn't result in leaving your opponent a shot...

And having said all that, I say, let's prove it...I'd be more than happy to bet on this shot at the DCC - you can shoot it, and if you don't get a kiss, and don't leave me a shot - you win...if you get a kiss, or you leave me a shot, I win...howsabout $20 a shot? - do I have action?....

- Ghost

PS, Trust me, I'm the president of the A.M.A. - I oversee, instruct, and evaluate 'doctors'...

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You're a funny guy, you amuse me, and by the way I thought that you also qualified to be in the oldtimers club. Since you haven't officially been inducted you're going to have to go through The Duck since he's the Pres.

Getting back to the shot that I said was a brilliant shot. Yes I still stand behind my assement of the shot. What I think is brilliant is the way he controlled the cue ball, designed to dodge kisses, a very high % of the time. And you're proposal to bet against the kiss, OR leaving a return shot is funny, that's where you amuse me. Just like Dennis said, that leaving your opponent near or on the bottom rail is a fair tradeoff, if you happen to leave a shot. I agree. With this shot you're moving both balls away from your opponents pocket and leaving the cue ball near, or on the bottom rail, creating distance (always an ally)from a POSSIBLE return shot. I'll take that anytime in a situation like this one.


Here's a quote from your post...

And having said all that, I say, let's prove it...I'd be more than happy to bet on this shot at the DCC - you can shoot it, and if you don't get a kiss, and don't leave me a shot - you win...if you get a kiss, or you leave me a shot, I win...howsabout $20 a shot? - do I have action?....

Why would I do that?

In situations like this one, where I need to do something that I feel is crucial to the outcome of the game I don't look at it like....will I leave my opponent a tough shot?... The way I look at it is what are my options and what figures to happen with the choices available, then make a decision. This has more to do with gambling with the % opposed to ..will I leave my opponent a tough shot... That's the reason why Red shoots this shot, he's developed a feel for this shot and hits it well, leaving his opponent where he will have to perform well to keep pace. Imo. not a bad way to think.

- Ghost Let me write you a prescription for your condition. Take shots like this one, and develope a feel for them so you can add them to your arsenal, and before you know it, you'll be moving like a ghost Trust me, i'm a doctor.

Billy I.

lll said:

ghost
let me ask the question a different way

would you give red the same proposition to shoot that shot 10 times??

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Yes Larry, I would...and I swear on your life that that is the truth......

- Ghosty

Skin said:

I think this is the essentail element of the shot and what makes it so good. Speaking strictly as a "feel" shooter, he must have been able to intrepret the angles and guage the speed very accurately to tell when the shot was on or the kiss was on. I suspect there were times when he passed up the shot, also, because of this.

Skin

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That's exactly right, Red developed a feel for this shot, when it carried the angle that was condusive to the outcome needed. If you notice the path the cue ball took, you will see the value of the shot. This shot is a very good shot once you are able to reconize the availability of the outcome needed, and develope the feel for the shot. Your perception is right on.

Billy I.

wincardona said:

That's exactly right, Red developed a feel for this shot, when it carried the angle that was condusive to the outcome needed. If you notice the path the cue ball took, you will see the value of the shot. This shot is a very good shot once you are able to reconize the availability of the outcome needed, and develope the feel for the shot. Your perception is right on.

Billy I.

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Except for the fact that my argument/points were not related to other, hypothetical, similar layouts, wherein the kiss may be easier to duck...

I am only debating the actual shot/ball placement that Dennis posted up, with the arrows (entering kiss territory ) that he added.

- Ghost

PS, Trust me, I'm the president of the A.M.A. - I oversee, instruct, and evaluate 'doctors'...

Skin said:

I think this is the essentail element of the shot and what makes it so good. Speaking strictly as a "feel" shooter, he must have been able to intrepret the angles and guage the speed very accurately to tell when the shot was on or the kiss was on. I suspect there were times when he passed up the shot, also, because of this.

Skin

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Skin, thanks for being here, with the open mindness and the understanding of, how to improve my game disposition. I'm really impressed with the way you interpret situations and your willingness to understand the value in situations of this kind.

I would like to describe the logistics of this shot, the way I see it. Whenever this shot shows, it will carry the angle that that will send the cue ball to the left, and then to the bottom rail. The first ball struck will be moving fast enough to move the ball positioned on the rail, BEFORE the cue ball sets. When the lead ball hits the ball positioned on the bottom rail it should alter the direction of the lead ball enough to avoid the kiss. If this shot is hit well, the kiss is eliminated.

By the way my description wasn't to educate you, I know you have the understanding of the shot.

That's where the feel of the shot is crucial to the outcome, and why Red hit this shot so well.

Billy I.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Except for the fact that my argument/points were not related to other, hypothetical, similar layouts, wherein the kiss may be easier to duck...

I am only debating the actual shot/ball placement that Dennis posted up, with the arrows (entering kiss territory ) that he added.

- Ghost

PS, Trust me, I'm the president of the A.M.A. - I oversee, instruct, and evaluate 'doctors'...

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OK, UNCLE.

Billy I.

wincardona said:

You're a funny guy

- Ghost Let me write you a prescription for your condition. Trust me, i'm a doctor.

Billy I.

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Hey Billy......Since the gang here doesn't have the 'Duck vs. Beard Hatefest' to amuse/entertain them any more...we're just doing our part to pick up the slack a little...

- Ghosty

One Pocket Ghost said:

Hey Billy......Since the gang here doesn't have the 'Duck vs. Beard Hatefest' to amuse/entertain them any more...we're just doing our part to pick up the slack a little...

- Ghosty

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doing a good job so far

One Pocket Ghost said:

Hey Billy......Since the gang here doesn't have the 'Duck vs. Beard Hatefest' to amuse/entertain them any more...we're just doing our part to pick up the slack a little...

- Ghosty

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As much as I enjoyed the dialogue, i'm glad that they have an understanding and we can get back to playing one pocket. For the time being.

Billy I.