Tournament Dumping???

petie

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Petie, You may not be aware, but the PBA was just formed in 1959..A few top notch bowler's got together and put up a few bucks apiece, and hired a PR firm and a secretary, and look where that took them..Probably the most boring sport in the world to watch, but they now have 8-10 million up for grabs, and lots of big name sponsors..I won't even get into Golf..Can you envision a few pool players doing something like that ?...Always been that way...So sad !!! I tried to organize pool along those lines, in the 60's...Talk about a fruitless, thankless task...I soon gave up..:rolleyes:

Keep trying, Dick. We learn from our failures. 99% of the very successful people in this world failed several times before finally succeeding. All great projects have great obstacles. Start by forming a committee of smart, interested, honest, people to collect ideas and make a game plan. They could meet at DCC and go from there. It might take a few years of trying but guess what a few years of not trying will get you. I'd like to nominate Nick Varner, Robert Melrose, Billy Incardona, Steve Booth, Jim McDermit, Greg Sullivan and yourself as the Ad Hoc committee to invite other members to form a credible, non-exploitative, pro-actively advocative, Professional Players' Association.
 

vapros

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Hey, Dick, I'm compressed!! The PBA began in a little law office in Akron, by a lawyer named Eddie Elias and his secretary, Lorraine Stitzlein. I'm proud of you - how did you know about that?
 

fred bentivegna

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Keep trying, Dick. We learn from our failures. 99% of the very successful people in this world failed several times before finally succeeding. All great projects have great obstacles. Start by forming a committee of smart, interested, honest, people to collect ideas and make a game plan. They could meet at DCC and go from there. It might take a few years of trying but guess what a few years of not trying will get you. I'd like to nominate Nick Varner, Robert Melrose, Billy Incardona, Steve Booth, Jim McDermit, Greg Sullivan and yourself as the Ad Hoc committee to invite other members to form a credible, non-exploitative, pro-actively advocative, Professional Players' Association.Petie


See DickBrain, you already have your own little Club/Association that I aint welcome on.;) I knew there had to be somebody that would have you. :lol Maybe Weanie Beanie can become a member of the committee post humously?:D

Beard
 

Cowboy Dennis

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It's nice to be informed but the less exposure of this kind of thing the better in my opinion. If we continue to highlight this and briing it to the attention of newer devotees of the sport, the more we impeed our progress to a better world for pool players--Olympic sport, decent paying tournaments, television exposure, substantial sponsorship, etc. It would be like selling transatlantic cruises but playing "The Titanic" all the time.

petie,

It would seem at cross-purposes to write that less exposure of this kind is better and then include one of the 8 tournament dumpers in your committee to improve things. That's part of the problem with finding people to do something like this, you need people who are clean. Going by your own criteria (smart, interested, honest) three of the people named would be automatic rejects.

Dennis
 

Ken_4fun

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Really, Baseball, Bowling, Golf and, I'm sure, many professional sports started out with betting (and the inevitable hustling) as a way to make expenses or a living. People generally act in their own best interest--at least for the short term. When we have a system where a reasonable number of professional players can make a reasonable living, this ugly stuff won't be necessary. Organize.

UGH....

While in more recent memory was Earl Strickland's antics at Romines a few years ago. Corey Duall was slow breaking and making a ball, getting excellent shape and running out each rack.

Earl became Earl, pulled up before the match was complete.

This was just as men's tour was going through sponsorship change, and guess what......:rolleyes:.......we lost another sponsor and the mens tour was done and has been done ever since.

I guess I shouldnt but I still hold a grudge about it, and whenever someone how great Earl is, I just shut up, nod, try to walk away. :frus

We have identified the enemy and the enemy is us.....

Organize my a$$...:rolleyes:

Ken
 

fred bentivegna

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Tell us! Tell us!

Tell us! Tell us!

petie,

It would seem at cross-purposes to write that less exposure of this kind is better and then include one of the 8 tournament dumpers in your committee to improve things. That's part of the problem with finding people to do something like this, you need people who are clean. Going by your own criteria (smart, interested, honest) three of the people named would be automatic rejects.

Dennis

Name them! Name them! (As if we didnt already know) Incidentally, up until I read that Nick was one of the Unholy Eight, he was on the club's borderline. That put him over the top.

Now for the record. I have condemned that stupid antic from the moment I heard about it. It did put a damper on Vegas ever doing anything for pool.

It was bad enough that they did what they did, but almost as bad was getting caught.

What they were too dumb to realize is that even if they made it look good and Mike would have won easily, they would have been uncovered for sure later anyway. An eight person conspiracy makes keeping a secret an impossibility.

If they didnt tell on themselves, then they would have eventually told somebody who would have told on them. The consequences would have been just as bad if Vegas found out later.

Beard
 

androd

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New Braunfels tx.
What they were too dumb to realize is that even if they made it look good and Mike would have won easily, they would have been uncovered for sure later anyway. An eight person conspiracy makes keeping a secret an impossibility.

If they didnt tell on themselves, then they would have eventually told somebody who would have told on them. The consequences would have been just as bad if Vegas found out later.

Beard

Yeah, more than one would've been compelled to tell someone how smart they were.:frus
Rod.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Keep trying, Dick. We learn from our failures. 99% of the very successful people in this world failed several times before finally succeeding. All great projects have great obstacles. Start by forming a committee of smart, interested, honest, people to collect ideas and make a game plan.

petie,

Your heart is in the right place but the players's hearts are not. They are cutting up prize money and doing deals at every tournament there is.

I still remember when two players at a local monthly 9-Ball tourney decided to split the finals cash rather than play the match. If I'm not mistaken the room owner, Ray Abrams, banned them both from the monthly tourneys after that. I couldn't believe they were so dumb, all they had to do was play the last match out.

The bottom line, if there was a sanctioning body that had rules to follow for players would be that the ultimate sanction would be barring a player from tourneys for "conduct unbecoming". What would they care? They would be stuck doing what they do now? What punishment is that? They enjoy being busted and living like they do, that's part of the allure.

Dennis
 

petie

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Citrus Springs, FL
petie,

Your heart is in the right place but the players's hearts are not. They are cutting up prize money and doing deals at every tournament there is.

I still remember when two players at a local monthly 9-Ball tourney decided to split the finals cash rather than play the match. If I'm not mistaken the room owner, Ray Abrams, banned them both from the monthly tourneys after that. I couldn't believe they were so dumb, all they had to do was play the last match out.

The bottom line, if there was a sanctioning body that had rules to follow for players would be that the ultimate sanction would be barring a player from tourneys for "conduct unbecoming". What would they care? They would be stuck doing what they do now? What punishment is that? They enjoy being busted and living like they do, that's part of the allure.

Dennis

They cut up the prizes for two reasons at least. One is that second prize probably doesn't pay enough to buy the guy's bus fair home. Number two is that the tournament finals. Probably took place at 3:00 AM. Tis is also an economic consideration because if they had adequate funding, they could have a more relaxed schedule that would bring the final into prime time. All you have to do to prevent it is not to pay the players who do it.

Pool players aren't any different than everybody else in the world. They'll predictably use the incentives to gain the system. It would be the job of the "Save Pool" committee to get the incentives right. You should be on the committee, Dennis:0)
 

grimel

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Why wouldn't they have put all of their money on Buddy and let Buddy win?

They would have won much less money, but it also would have went undetected, and they could have done it again at future tournaments.

Because 20:1 pays more than 8:5 and they are retarded pool players that can't be bothered to think beyond the next 15 minutes. :frus
 

grimel

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Oct 27, 2011
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Really, Baseball, Bowling, Golf and, I'm sure, many professional sports started out with betting (and the inevitable hustling) as a way to make expenses or a living. People generally act in their own best interest--at least for the short term. When we have a system where a reasonable number of professional players can make a reasonable living, this ugly stuff won't be necessary. Organize.

There has been a dozen attempts. I think Grady said it best on one of his older tapes: an IQ of 7 precludes being a member of the board. Hiring a PR firm would be a great first step.
 

grimel

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They could meet at DCC and go from there. It might take a few years of trying but guess what a few years of not trying will get you. I'd like to nominate Nick Varner, Robert Melrose, Billy Incardona, Steve Booth, Jim McDermit, Greg Sullivan and yourself as the Ad Hoc committee to invite other members to form a credible, non-exploitative, pro-actively advocative, Professional Players' Association.

NOOOO! Hire a PR firm, then an actual manager/CEO with some business experience to put together a tour with sponsors some of which NEED to be non-pool related. Then, put together a small committee (3,5, or 7 people) to put together bylaws ala the PGA and set an annual dues. To participate in ANY sanctioned tournament the players would be required to have a tour card. Have the players play. Have business people run the show. Having the players run things has worked out greatly so far.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Several people have e-mailed me and/or pm'ed me to thank me for this story http://southernbilliards.yuku.com/topic/1834?sms_ss=favorites&at_xt=4dec2968c3765762,1 on the dump of a major tournament by a couple of major, top-level poolplayers including one who was recently voted into the onepocket.org HOF.

All credit must go to R.H. Gilmer, the recently deceased and highly respected "Professor" from the Southern Billiards online forums. These are his posts and responses to a thread he started regarding "splits, takedowns & savers".


This thread is for the people who have requested more info and have thanked me for the original post on the topic. We need more like you.

Dennis

It looks like people will be able to actually watch the matches from this invitational tourney soon if the person who bought the DVD posts it on YouTube.

1991 COC Controversy DVD Sigel Rempe Hall Varner Howard Lebron Hopkins  eBay - _2012-12-10_12-59.jpg

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis,

That link was not to the poem I was referring to.

Well then, maybe you should be more specific when posting gibberish totally unrelated to the original post in the thread or maybe, just maybe, you should actually start a brand new thread asking the very questions you want to ask.

Dennis
 

tylerdurden

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It looks like people will be able to actually watch the matches from this invitational tourney soon if the person who bought the DVD posts it on YouTube.

View attachment 7380

Dennis

It is too bad, I really do have those tapes, but just so tough for me to get them as I don't live stateside anymore. As you say, we'll get to see them in any case hopefully :)
 

petie

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Oct 2, 2005
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Citrus Springs, FL
This is just what the pool world needs--a reminder of it's darkest hour. Maybe, just maybe if noone would keep reminding us of it (and thus informing countless newcomers who never knew it existed) it would go to where it belongs into obscurity where it will no longer be an impediment to the further development of our sport. I believe that this continued focus on the biggest black eye our sport has ever sustained grows out of a desire to be seen as in-the-know. Keep it to yourself please.
 
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