Sigel ...

Mike Sigel appears on the record books page as winner or runner-up seven times. I'm sorry Mike maybe you will get nominated next year.

tonygreen said:

Mike Sigel appears on the record books page as winner or runner-up seven times. I'm sorry Mike maybe you will get nominated next year.

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I think it's slightly a case of one pocket "players" not considering someone who focuses on games other than one pocket as deserving enough for nomination/induction. Of course, most people on this forum would much more dread matching up with someone who shoots aggressive shots accurately than someone who plays the game the right way. As often as not, sharpshooters seem to beat the one pocket specialists, especially in tournament formats.

What I fail to understand, though, is how Harold Worst! will beat out Ervolino, Clem, and Irish who specialized in one pocket their entire lives. From what I've heard, Worst was just a super talented pool player who found success in one pocket more or less as Sigel did -- by just being super talented. I guess some current old-timers just have nostalgia for the guy because he was a top player from when they were kids. It seems that nostalgia doesn't yet exist for Mike Sigel ...

BackPocket9Ball said:

I think it's slightly a case of one pocket "players" not considering someone who focuses on games other than one pocket as deserving enough for nomination/induction. Of course, most people on this forum would much more dread matching up with someone who shoots aggressive shots accurately than someone who plays the game the right way. As often as not, sharpshooters seem to beat the one pocket specialists, especially in tournament formats.

What I fail to understand, though, is how Harold Worst! will beat out Ervolino, Clem, and Irish who specialized in one pocket their entire lives. From what I've heard, Worst was just a super talented pool player who found success in one pocket more or less as Sigel did -- by just being super talented. I guess some current old-timers just have nostalgia for the guy because he was a top player from when they were kids. It seems that nostalgia doesn't yet exist for Mike Sigel ...

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I agree 100%. I much prefer to see players nominated/elected who truly embrace/embraced the game of One Pocket -- who are/were ambassadors of this particular game. They don't only play it well as just another game that involved a cue ball and pockets that yes, they can win at because they are ungodly talented players. That is the impression I get from from Sigel, Worst and also Jim Rempe -- another player that won some One Pocket events. There is already a Hall of Fame for these great all around pool players, and all of those guys are already in it, so it's not like we need to feel that they have been neglected.

Buddy Hall, I see differently. After his 9-ball career he truly has embraced One Pocket -- you often hear him doing commentary for example. He has adopted the game as his own.

Another way to think about the players is this -- were they a One Pocket player that inspired others to take up the game? That is, do you ever hear other younger generations of players talking about learning to love the game of One Pocket because they spent time around xxxx? You hear that about Ervolino all the time, but I can't say I have ever heard that with regards to One Pocket when it comes to Sigel, Rempe or Worst (granted, Worst was before my time).

wasnt efren a 15 ball rotation player???
has won the banks and 9 ball??
just sayin

lll said:

wasnt efren a 15 ball rotation player???
has won the banks and 9 ball??
just sayin

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Big difference in the degree that Efren embraced One Pocket vs those other great all-around players. And talk about a player that inspires others to play the game... no contest.

Worst was a little more..

Worst was a little more..

BackPocket9Ball said:

I think it's slightly a case of one pocket "players" not considering someone who focuses on games other than one pocket as deserving enough for nomination/induction. Of course, most people on this forum would much more dread matching up with someone who shoots aggressive shots accurately than someone who plays the game the right way. As often as not, sharpshooters seem to beat the one pocket specialists, especially in tournament formats.

What I fail to understand, though, is how Harold Worst! will beat out Ervolino, Clem, and Irish who specialized in one pocket their entire lives. From what I've heard, Worst was just a super talented pool player who found success in one pocket more or less as Sigel did -- by just being super talented. I guess some current old-timers just have nostalgia for the guy because he was a top player from when they were kids. It seems that nostalgia doesn't yet exist for Mike Sigel ...

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I think Harold Worst was in just a little different type category. I was at Johnson City every year. Once Worst started playing one pocket he barred NOBODY from playing. That included Eddie Taylor and Ronnie Allen, both of whom ducked him, even after Worst would make nightly announcements that he would play anybody, anything but bank pool for whatever they wanted to bet. Plus he played many one pocket matches there. He gave Sonny Springer 8 to 6 and the break after being steered into that trap by Weenie Beanie. He was 6 games loser at $200 a game, realized he was in a death trap, raised it to $400 a game, ran 8 and out 3 games in a row, got even and quit.
The guy to ask about Harold Worst is Ronnie Allen. He has no problem deferring to the speed of Harold Worst.

Beard

Jimmy Fusco

Jimmy Fusco

NH Steve said:

I agree 100%. I much prefer to see players nominated/elected who truly embrace/embraced the game of One Pocket -- who are/were ambassadors of this particular game. They don't only play it well as just another game that involved a cue ball and pockets that yes, they can win at because they are ungodly talented players. That is the impression I get from from Sigel, Worst and also Jim Rempe -- another player that won some One Pocket events. There is already a Hall of Fame for these great all around pool players, and all of those guys are already in it, so it's not like we need to feel that they have been neglected.

Buddy Hall, I see differently. After his 9-ball career he truly has embraced One Pocket -- you often hear him doing commentary for example. He has adopted the game as his own.

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Good points but I put Jimmy Fusco and Allen Hopkins, who were both superb 9 Ball and 14.1 players in the catgory with Rempe and Sigel and they were nominated and subsequently voted in...your thoughts.

Wedge

NH Steve said:

Big difference in the degree that Efren embraced One Pocket vs those other great all-around players. And talk about a player that inspires others to play the game... no contest.

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steve i agree with you
just trying to get some dicussion

I'm not even "verified" but i'll chime in on the other side. I actually don't care how much a guy embraced the game. If he played some good one pocket (a requisite for winning), and he won "enough", he should be there -- whoever the player may be. Yet, that's not to say i wouldn't root for guys that did embrace the game of course.

Even though I would root for Sigel, the one funny thing I heard he said about one hole before his match with Ervelino on Accustats on I think the second to the last day of the tournament....

"I have already checked out of my hotel"

Wedge said:

Good points but I put Jimmy Fusco and Allen Hopkins, who were both superb 9 Ball and 14.1 players in the catgory with Rempe and Sigel and they were nominated and subsequently voted in...your thoughts.

Wedge

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Wedge,

I don't know which area of the country you're from, but Jimmy Fusco and Allen Hopkins are not anywhere close to Rempe and Sigel in terms of one pocket experience. I say this because I've had conversations regarding pool & one pocket with all of them, especially Fusco and Hopkins, and I've watched Fusco and Hopkins in action many, many times.

Even though both of them were straight pool champions, they were also among the top one pocket players on the East Coast for decades. Neither Rempe nor Sigel would ever have challenged Fusco or Hopkins to gamble high-stakes even one pocket. Not even close.

In 1990 Sigel walked into the poolroom where I worked one mile outside of Washington DC, the place was empty he walked over to the wood pile and grabbed what may as well have been a broom stick and banked a frozen one railer straight back w/ "authority". Sigel possessed at the time and to a degree still does all the requirements to be a top 50 OnePocket player.

All i'm saying is Leonard Rucker was a banks player Ervolino was NewYork state straight pool champion Hall was a 9 ball man, in other threads we have chatted about Reyes being a rotation player and yet all four excelled at 1pocket. Sigel is deserving because of his one-pocket acumen. With being named on the records page seven times isn't that enough for him to receive the head nod? I understand the subjective nature of the nomination process but feel that Mike could play ALL of the names already inducted and none of these guys could give Sigel 11to8 or 10-7 or 9-6 and some days but he could beat them even also. It's understood that there is a huge statistical difference in those handicaps My only point here is, it took another champion to beat him playing one-pocket. Any of those champions who were to try to give him three balls would have been ready for the "rubber room" after. Sigel may have been one-ball under Hopkins, Fusco but that isn't enough to dismiss his name from nomination. Many here have their opinion that this hall of famer could have given another hall of famer a ball and the break, i think that this is not enough to have one swept aside.

tonygreen said:

Many here have their opinion that this hall of famer could have given another hall of famer a ball and the break, i think that this is not enough to have one swept aside.

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Tony,

The One Pocket/Banks HOF is populated with those players that are nominated and then voted IN. These players are not necessarily Champions (some are) but mostly Gambling One Pocket players that spent more time in the backrooms than on any tournament chart.

Nominate Mr. Sigel next year and see if OnePocket.org nominations committee will put Mr. Sigel on the ballot.

One Pocket Records

One Pocket Records

BackPocket9Ball said:

Wedge,

I don't know which area of the country you're from, but Jimmy Fusco and Allen Hopkins are not anywhere close to Rempe and Sigel in terms of one pocket experience. I say this because I've had conversations regarding pool & one pocket with all of them, especially Fusco and Hopkins, and I've watched Fusco and Hopkins in action many, many times.

Even though both of them were straight pool champions, they were also among the top one pocket players on the East Coast for decades. Neither Rempe nor Sigel would ever have challenged Fusco or Hopkins to gamble high-stakes even one pocket. Not even close.

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I am from Reading, PA but now live in Frederick, MD. I appreciate your view. Thanks for the response. I looked up One Pocket Records on this website:
http://www.onepocket.org/records.htm I still believe Rempe (1971 Johnston City One Pocket Champion and other tourney's) as well as Sigel who is on the list numerous times also deserve to be at least nominated (The fans will decide). Mike Sigel is the house pro where I play in Frederick. I'll pose the question to him next time I see him (Should be a real lengthy response). I'll keep you posted on his response!!!

Bee Well

Wedge

Wedge said:

Good points but I put Jimmy Fusco and Allen Hopkins, who were both superb 9 Ball and 14.1 players in the catgory with Rempe and Sigel and they were nominated and subsequently voted in...your thoughts.

Wedge

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Both Fusco and Hopkins have promoted One Pocket tournaments and been involved multiple times with either commentary or instructional videos or both. Also, both have long, long histories of One Pocket competition, and positively representing the game of One Pocket. These are both great examples of exactly the kind of player that belongs in the One Pocket HOF.

East Coast/West Coast

East Coast/West Coast

There is a West Coat east Coast bias. Should not be there but it is.

The abrasive style of Segal and Ervolino, especially if you were lucky enough to beat them, is something I have experienced first hand, and if it rubbed me the wrong way, I am sure there are others. Sportsmanship is part of the equation too.

jrhendy said:

There is a West Coat east Coast bias. Should not be there but it is.

The abrasive style of Segal and Ervolino, especially if you were lucky enough to beat them, is something I have experienced first hand, and if it rubbed me the wrong way, I am sure there are others. Sportsmanship is part of the equation too.

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But Hopkins didn't/doesn't have that abrasive style at all. He's full of self-confidence too, but I've seen him defeated for cash several times and he shook hands and remained friendly and relatively upbeat.

John,
Are you making a statement? Should I read between the lines of your post? Existing inductees were not all choir boys, I can think of many instances where they did not display good sportsmanship.

Just curious ...

tonygreen said:

John,
Are you making a statement? Should I read between the lines of your post? Existing inductees were not all choir boys, I can think of many instances where they did not display good sportsmanship.

Just curious ...

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Just an honest opinion about why someone like me, a long time West Coast player (50+ years) who has played both of them, would not vote for them. There certainly are other East Coasters I would and have voted for.

Not many, if any, choir boys in pool and I am not either. Like it or not, there is a bias that goes both ways. There are always exceptions but IMO there is a bias that exists and has for years.

BackPocket9Ball said:

But Hopkins didn't/doesn't have that abrasive style at all. He's full of self-confidence too, but I've seen him defeated for cash several times and he shook hands and remained friendly and relatively upbeat.

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There are many that do not have that style and it wasn't fair for me to suggest all were like that, but my personal experience with those two in particular keeps me from voting for them.