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  #161  
Old 09-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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I agree 100% with the guys who advocate a shot clock for people like Dennis O. As a rule, I don't like shot clocks, since one-pocket --like baseball-- should not ordinarily have time limits.

However IMO Chohan in effect gave the nuts to Orcullo when he didn't stipulate against Orcullos's dawdling snail's pace play. Might he have lost anyway? Of course. But we all know that oftentimes matches are won or lost during negotiations. One of Tony's defects is that he's too nice of a guy. And sometimes that's going to cause poor matchups. He needs a guy like Bill I. to manage his negotiations!

~Doc
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  #162  
Old 09-24-2019, 11:06 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc View Post
I agree 100% with the guys who advocate a shot clock for people like Dennis O. As a rule, I don't like shot clocks, since one-pocket --like baseball-- should not ordinarily have time limits.

However IMO Chohan in effect gave the nuts to Orcullo when he didn't stipulate against Orcullos's dawdling snail's pace play. Might he have lost anyway? Of course. But we all know that oftentimes matches are won or lost during negotiations. One of Tony's defects is that he's too nice of a guy. And sometimes that's going to cause poor matchups. He needs a guy like Bill I. to manage his negotiations!

~Doc
Why would you say that Doc? I seem to lose all my attempts with negotiating with you. I'm thinkin or HOPING that your just playin with me.

Have a good day.

Dr. Bill
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  #163  
Old 09-24-2019, 12:11 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Originally Posted by wincardona View Post
Why would you say that Doc? I seem to lose all my attempts with negotiating with you. I'm thinkin or HOPING that your just playin with me.

Have a good day.

Dr. Bill
Heh, heh. Well, we've kidded back and forth over the years, and I only kid with people who I admire. But there's no question that you have a keen mind when it comes to odds and their pragmatic application. You know all the good players' strengths and weaknesses, and can pick winners and losers with the best of them. IMO, as an observation, your long experience in all those areas would sure benefit a player like Chohan.

~Doc
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  #164  
Old 09-24-2019, 02:17 PM
Erik Erik is offline
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I watched most of this match and it just seemed like Orcollo's execution in every aspect of the game was stronger. His ball running is amazing. It seemed like the first and second days when Tony got to a shot he would try to break open the stack really quick. I wonder if some of that has to do with not having as good a cue ball as Orcollo...seems like Chohan feels more comfortable with the balls opened up so he has options when he runs out of shape. Orcollo's confidence in making difficult shots and playing position seems to allow him to pick off loose balls and only bump one or two out of the stack as he needs.

I watched a lot of their first match in CA and it did seem like Orcollo slow played that match escpecially the second and third days. In that match it seemed a little bit more like gamesmanship, like he was throwing some water on Tony' fire. In this match he seemed to play quicker overall, and I think his slowness is just his style more than a move. If anything I think it speaks to his focus and intensity, and how well he maintains those two things over long periods. Orcollo seems to just have such a killer instinct and that is really hard to beat. Would a shot clock have made a difference in the score? Maybe, but I still think Dennis would've come out on top. Though he is hard to watch sometimes.

It seems less a difference in physical health (I don't think Dennis is on the treadmill everyday) as it is just a pool regimen. Orcollo practices and plays non-stop, he seems to be either in stroke or in better stroke.

Tony's execution just didn't seem as strong in this match as in their first match (I didn't really see the second one). He missed a lot of one rail banks that he usually always makes. There was a lot of games where he beat Dennis to the shot but couldn't capitalize. Tony sure did kick well in this match though, he kicks so well at balls that are out in the middle of the table it's scary. Tony seems to be the only player the last few years to be willing to step up and play Alex or Dennis even, he is definitely fearless. And when he is playing his best I think its a closer match. Last thing I will say is Tony seems like a very humble person. When he posted on facebook after the match he gave all the credit to Dennis, even saying he learned from him. And though I thought he got the worst of the rolls by far, he didn't complain about that in his post at all...wish that were the case for all players.
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  #165  
Old 09-24-2019, 06:40 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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he definitely was a good spot about losing. no shot clocks needed in pool. just dont give any action to the slow players and deny them entry into the tournaments. just watch how they change.

play them game by game and not sets. then just quit them when they play slow and tell them why. they will speed up.
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  #166  
Old 09-24-2019, 06:52 PM
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sappo sappo is online now
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Originally Posted by beatle View Post
he definitely was a good spot about losing. no shot clocks needed in pool. just dont give any action to the slow players and deny them entry into the tournaments. just watch how they change.

play them game by game and not sets. then just quit them when they play slow and tell them why. they will speed up.
Hey Beatle, how about we wire each player up with an electric shock device. After 45 or 60 seconds they get a good shock. Each time they fail to shoot within the specified time the amount off the shock gets increased. They can take as long as they want with no penalty as far as the game goes but they will get the shocks. Im sure with the appropriate amount of current slow play would become a thing of the past. The added benefit would be the enjoyment we viewers would get watching them vibrate when they get zapped. Keith
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  #167  
Old 09-24-2019, 09:23 PM
LSJohn LSJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik View Post
Last thing I will say is Tony seems like a very humble person. When he posted on facebook after the match he gave all the credit to Dennis, even saying he learned from him. And though I thought he got the worst of the rolls by far, he didn't complain about that in his post at all...wish that were the case for all players.
Amen, brother. Tony seems like a solid guy. He more than anyone else I know about stepped up for Cliff when Cliff had his stroke.
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  #168  
Old 09-29-2019, 04:08 AM
AtLarge AtLarge is offline
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Here are some stats for the match. Sorry I neglected to post a link here last week. https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=499915
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  #169  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:27 PM
BRLongArm BRLongArm is offline
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Distribution of lengths of games for days 3 and 4 (excludes Day 3's first 3 games, which took 90 minutes in total)
≤10 minutes -- 8 games
11-20 minutes -- 11
21-30 minutes -- 6
31-60 minutes -- 9
61+ minutes -- 0
Total -- 34


No games went over an hour. Only 9 games went over 30 minutes. What are you guys complaining about slow play? You are watching one of the greatest one pocket players on earth and you bitch that he doesn't shoot fast enough. Considering Alex and Dennis are the best players, and both look the table over more than we do, maybe we should consider slowing down our play a little and looking at our options a little more fully. Remember, only 9 games went over 30 minutes. Or maybe it doesn't take long to bunt the ball, which is what we do. They are looking to do more with their inning than just play a passive, defensive shot. It looked like Dennis put Tony in all kinds of traps during the four days. He wasn't doing that last year. He has definitely picked up his knowledge on defense and trapping.

Last edited by BRLongArm; 09-29-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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  #170  
Old 09-29-2019, 01:42 PM
lll lll is offline
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joe
your point is understood
and let me say you know what you are getting when dennis plays so you either watch or dont or play him or dont
but length of game time is skewed to be shorter because both players run alot of balls or get out when they get to the first shot.
if we took as much time as dennis to decide what to shoot and with our ball pocketing skills
we may need to schedule out member only tournaments for one week / race to 2....
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