Would you put this last ball into play, in a serious game?

beatle said:

putting that fourth ball in play is terrible imho. you might make a case if playing the best in the world but against two weaker players than that it means almost all times if you make a mistake you still might have an even game with that one ball left.

if you ever played someone good at the two rail kick when four or more balls are up there you would not be giving out the shot as you might find your now the dog.

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I have two DVDs that show how to shoot that hanger 2 rail kick from anywhere off the back rail.

Beard

I would be afraid to put that 4th ball in play even if I was dumping.

Perfect reply, Fred.
Not much more needs saying.

fred bentivegna said:

I have two DVDs that show how to shoot that hanger 2 rail kick from anywhere off the back rail.

Beard

I would be afraid to put that 4th ball in play even if I was dumping.

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Just out of curiosity, can you make that 2 rail kick from the side rail, just above the corner pocket there (the shot i'm talking about is diagrammed in post #36)?

tylerdurden said:

Just out of curiosity, can you make that 2 rail kick from the side rail, just above the corner pocket there (the shot i'm talking about is diagrammed in post #36)?

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Yes you can Tyler, very easily, especially now that there are even more balls lined up...You asked for my input..

tylerdurden said:

I really want to know what Duck would do here, no kidding. I think this was probably the strongest part of his game - stuff like this.

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...and here it is..Before the balls stopped rolling, I would know I would be shooting the 'skim off the 4, 2 rails down to the bottom rail, behind the stack. To me, and several other's...that is the ONLY shot in that situation..

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=104245&postcount=19

PS..unless of course you feel you could make the 4, and draw into the jaws of the pocket, and corner hook me, there is no other shot..

Beard

I would be afraid to put that 4th ball in play even if I was dumping.[/QUOTE]

Very funny!
You made me laugh out loud.

pin him between the 4 and rail - you're either back in the same spot, or he'll skim it sending you below the line(his risk, you might get free shot, blah blah blah)

newfosgatesucks said:

pin him between the 4 and rail - you're either back in the same spot, or he'll skim it sending you below the line(his risk, you might get free shot, blah blah blah)

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...or he might be able to jack up and send the 4 back down into play and leave the cue ball stuck up there on the end rail -- depending on the angle you leave. Or he might be able to turn around and kick at the 4 with top (which becomes stop in those close quarters) and do the same thing.

I wondered about that shot too, but rejected it because of this.

Cowboy Dennis said:

I'm shooting some tomorrow and if I remember to charge the battery in my camera and if I remember to take it with me to the poolroom I will set up this 2-rail kick at the 4 balls, shoot it and then post the resulting pics...of the best layouts that represent my ideas anyway. You want to see yours??? Go shoot it yourself.

Dennis

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I finally got a day off and shot some pool. I set this up with the 4 balls on the footspot and the cueball frozen to the headrail on the diamond. I took about 10 practice shots to get my aim down. Then I shot it about 15 more times. 5 of them came out rather poor, the cueball hit an object ball full and hardly went uptable at all but even those didn't sell out much of a shot. 5 more came out well but not the best, cueball got uptable but not far enough and sold out a bank once or twice.

Five times came out great and this is the best of them, the cueball split the two bottom balls and went uptable off the 2nd one, the headball went to midtable and the other ball didn't move at all or moved very little.

I would feel pretty good about shooting this shot if I needed 4 balls from the headrail and there were 4 balls on the footspot.

SJDinPHX said:

Yes you can Tyler, very easily, especially now that there are even more balls lined up...You asked for my input..



...and here it is..Before the balls stopped rolling, I would know I would be shooting the 'skim off the 4, 2 rails down to the bottom rail, behind the stack. To me, and several other's...that is the ONLY shot in that situation..

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=104245&postcount=19

PS..unless of course you feel you could make the 4, and draw into the jaws of the pocket, and corner hook me, there is no other shot..

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Yes, I pre accept my wrongness here in the one pocket forum. The only things I don't agree with are people acting like the 2 rail kick is some sort of hanger, and I feel people are overlooking you are probably (at the very least) going to have a good opportunity to take balls out of play after he kicks, and the fact that your opponent may be a better end game mover than you, and I feel this would be a good chance to seal up the game the quickest. In 9 ball the whole game is based on forcing the guy to kick to impeded his accuracy, same concept here i guess.

If a guy shot your shot on me i'd probably go thin off that ball i was closest to and go 2 rails uptable and purposefully leave him the 2 and the 3 would be on my side. I dont see how that would be a light years better spot to be in seeing that the guy could butcher that kick a big number of times, but I do accept that leaving him my kick is probably not wise, based on all the opinions here.

Cowboy Dennis said:

I finally got a day off and shot some pool. I set this up with the 4 balls on the footspot and the cueball frozen to the headrail on the diamond. I took about 10 practice shots to get my aim down. Then I shot it about 15 more times. 5 of them came out rather poor, the cueball hit an object ball full and hardly went uptable at all but even those didn't sell out much of a shot. 5 more came out well but not the best, cueball got uptable but not far enough and sold out a bank once or twice.

Five times came out great and this is the best of them, the cueball split the two bottom balls and went uptable off the 2nd one, the headball went to midtable and the other ball didn't move at all or moved very little.

I would feel pretty good about shooting this shot if I needed 4 balls from the headrail and there were 4 balls on the footspot.

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Yeah, and if the cb goes to the rail, it is really loogking ugly. I have been setting myself up to be the onepocket.org sucker here, but i'll just put it this way: sometimes I feel we are so afraid to let the guy hit a home run, we end up walking him and really paying down the line, when we shoulda perhaps just won the damn game while we could.

If you are going to pocket the 4 ball you dont want to draw back. You want to stop and freeze your cueball to the middle diamond

onepockethacker said:

If you are going to pocket the 4 ball you dont want to draw back. You want to stop and freeze your cueball to the middle diamond

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I see value in that too, but coming off of them thin and back down seems very "executable". Do you mean favoring the one side of the diamond just a tad to make thinning it harder? I do like that the more I think about it. I'm out of my league on this one, I'll admit it, but I will say if you are in a hurry (for whatever reason) and want to win this game quick (without too bad a way to lose it immediately), leaving him that 2 rail kick isn't bad. Letting a guy open up a four ball cluster from locked on a rail isn't bad too often in my book, just go with what you feel is right. Maybe you one pocket guys execute that kick better than I think, so my bad. But it has been an informative discussion in any case.

tylerdurden said:

I see value in that too, but coming off of them thin and back down seems very "executable". Do you mean favoring the one side of the diamond just a tad to make thinning it harder? I do like that the more I think about it. I'm out of my league on this one, I'll admit it, but I will say if you are in a hurry (for whatever reason) and want to win this game quick (without too bad a way to lose it immediately), leaving him that 2 rail kick isn't bad. Letting a guy open up a four ball cluster from locked on a rail isn't bad too often in my book, just go with what you feel is right. Maybe you one pocket guys execute that kick better than I think, so my bad. But it has been an informative discussion in any case.

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Im mean frozen right on the middle diamond. Your saying that leaving him where you want to frozen is going to make it tough for him. Well where you want to leave him his margin of error on the 2 rail kick is big without completely selling out so him being frozen on your shot is not so detrimental to him. However frozen on the middle diamond requires a much more accurate hit (even when trying to thin it) and is a shot that can easily be butchered. Plus even if you thin it, at best 1 ball will go to your side usually. On the 2 rail kick 2 balls at least go to your side making it tougher to defend