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  #21  
Old 07-21-2019, 08:13 PM
lll lll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Doc & Steve,
I have developed a rule writing that will cover when the cb does not contact the rack, and when the cb is illegally place and/or illegally stroke.
-----------
Break:
When the cue ball is illegally placed, and/or illegally stroked, or does not make contact with the rack, it is a foul resulting in the incoming player having the option to either accept the table as is, or requiring the breaker to re-break.
-----------

How does that would for you guys? Whitey
i have a problem with illegally placed cue ball
that should be addressed BEFORE the breaker breaks
ie opponent responsibility or referee at the table
or else how many arguments will that bring??
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  #22  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:25 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lll View Post
i have a problem with illegally placed cue ball
that should be addressed BEFORE the breaker breaks
ie opponent responsibility or referee at the table
or else how many arguments will that bring??
I know, but it is in our break rules where it states; the cue ball is to placed behind the line.

The real problem is that WPA in all their wisdom (not) has done away with the warning that would normally be given by the opponent, telling the shooter that the cue ball is illegally placed, prior to stroking the cue ball.

The other aspect is placing the cue ball with a forward motion of the cue tip.

We had a very long thread before about WPA BIH/BTL rule. Since that discussion, WPA has now gotten rid of the loss of game rule within BIH/BTL. thanks Goodness.

Beatle, under the WPA BIH/BTL you do not have to warn the shooter that the cue ball is illegally placed, and definitely can call a foul after the cue ball is stroked, huge argument but that is the rule. Believe me, BCAPL goes by a very similar rule, and I went around with them over this. In our MOT we play by the American standard Behind the Line rule, whereas we can warn the shooter! Whitey
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:26 AM
beatle beatle is offline
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i dont know anything about those organizations and dont want to take part in anything they do.
they can make all the stupid rules they want but they still dont help the play of the game.

the more rules the more arguments and the less people play.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2019, 08:58 AM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Doc & Steve,
I have developed a rule writing that will cover when the cb does not contact the rack, and when the cb is illegally place and/or illegally stroke.
-----------
Break:
When the cue ball is illegally placed, and/or illegally stroked, or does not make contact with the rack, it is a foul resulting in the incoming player having the option to either accept the table as is, or requiring the breaker to re-break.
-----------
How does that would for you guys? Whitey
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatle View Post
i like that rule. if its a big game and he hits a terrific break i will claim his cueball was placed illegally and he has to break over again.

you cant call a cueball placed wrong after the shot. its up to you as the referee to tell him before the shot. unless you just want an argument.

every time you add a new rule you also add a couple of problems to go with it.

ive played thousands of games of one pocket all for decent or big money and never once can remember an argument over any of these things that people want to make new rules over.

I too like this rule. I saw the word "option" and was immediately interested. We are definitely on the right track. Now, if we just extend that option a little bit to ANY time there is a foul committed, I think we got it. What do ya think?
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:10 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
I too like this rule. I saw the word "option" and was immediately interested. We are definitely on the right track. Now, if we just extend that option a little bit to ANY time there is a foul committed, I think we got it. What do ya think?
Darmoose, you have many great ideas for the development of alternative ways to play OP.
On your 'all foul' rule, this is my suggestion!
Start an entirely new thread specific to this one rule.
Depict the rule in writing. This can also be further adjusted as ideas transpires.
Be specific as to its application, so your intent is perfectly clear.
Be open minded and work through member's suggestions.

IMO there is a far difference in the development of a rule pertaining to an isolated scenario vs. the development of an alternative way to play the game. When you suggest to apply it to every foul, I then think of an alternative way to play.

I also like the option that Doc came up with!
What do you think Darmoose, start a new thread? Whitey

Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 07-22-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:41 PM
rnewkirk rnewkirk is online now
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Default My Opinion

If you watch youtube 2019 DCC Billy Thorpe's matches, you will see the shot that this thread is about.

Billy is breaking. He miscues, sorta pushed the cue ball off to the left.(Billy is breaking for right hand pocket) Cue ball hits the end rail, has plenty of spin, goes off end rail and ends up in top right hand corner pocket.

My thoughts are that Jeromy Hanes, Billy's opponent, has to shoot from there.
Jeromy has a break shot of his own, now. Billy owes a ball, and the game goes on.

Advantage, Jeromy.

What happened after much off camera discussion, Jeromy took ball in hand and
he broke, starting new game.

No penalty assessed to Billy.

Watch match(right at first, 1st game), see if you do not agree.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:01 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnewkirk View Post
If you watch youtube 2019 DCC Billy Thorpe's matches, you will see the shot that this thread is about.

Billy is breaking. He miscues, sorta pushed the cue ball off to the left.(Billy is breaking for right hand pocket) Cue ball hits the end rail, has plenty of spin, goes off end rail and ends up in top right hand corner pocket.

My thoughts are that Jeromy Hanes, Billy's opponent, has to shoot from there.
Jeromy has a break shot of his own, now. Billy owes a ball, and the game goes on.

Advantage, Jeromy.

What happened after much off camera discussion, Jeromy took ball in hand and
he broke, starting new game.

No penalty assessed to Billy.

Watch match(right at first, 1st game), see if you do not agree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu--PQpsx2E
after the video starts you will have to move it back to the beginning, thanks! rnewkirk.
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2019, 10:32 PM
darmoose darmoose is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Darmoose, you have many great ideas for the development of alternative ways to play OP.
On your 'all foul' rule, this is my suggestion!
Start an entirely new thread specific to this one rule.
Depict the rule in writing. This can also be further adjusted as ideas transpires.
Be specific as to its application, so your intent is perfectly clear.
Be open minded and work through member's suggestions.

IMO there is a far difference in the development of a rule pertaining to an isolated scenario vs. the development of an alternative way to play the game. When you suggest to apply it to every foul, I then think of an alternative way to play.

I also like the option that Doc came up with!
What do you think Darmoose, start a new thread? Whitey
Whitey,

It was just a joke, bud. Lighten up just a bit. It's pretty obvious these rules discussions aren't going anywhere anyway. Carry on.
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:01 PM
Dennis "Whitey" Young Dennis "Whitey" Young is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
Whitey,

It was just a joke, bud. Lighten up just a bit. It's pretty obvious these rules discussions aren't going anywhere anyway. Carry on.
Ok, I did not get that, but ok. This thread is now a little different for we have a champion that miscued on the break and did not contact the rack.

This lone single miscue, which in and of itself is not a foul, surely was not intentional, but which resulted in his opponent breaking 3 out of the first 4 racks. I believe it is a race to 3. You know good darn well they made up this ruling on the fly. So just maybe these rule discussion may someday someway have a reason.

This is exactly why I backed off of having the break turned over to the opponent. It is one hell of an advantage, to much! If this would of happened on the 2nd rack then the opponent would of broke 3 racks in a row.

But IMO your alternative ideas will someday have a big impact upon OP, and could become the norm. That's a compliment, not joking! Whitey
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  #30  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:36 PM
youngstownkid's Avatar
youngstownkid youngstownkid is offline
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Default Rule question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnewkirk View Post
If you watch youtube 2019 DCC Billy Thorpe's matches, you will see the shot that this thread is about.



Billy is breaking. He miscues, sorta pushed the cue ball off to the left.(Billy is breaking for right hand pocket) Cue ball hits the end rail, has plenty of spin, goes off end rail and ends up in top right hand corner pocket.



My thoughts are that Jeromy Hanes, Billy's opponent, has to shoot from there.

Jeromy has a break shot of his own, now. Billy owes a ball, and the game goes on.



Advantage, Jeromy.



What happened after much off camera discussion, Jeromy took ball in hand and

he broke, starting new game.



No penalty assessed to Billy.



Watch match(right at first, 1st game), see if you do not agree.


They may have just agreed, unwittingly, to do it wrong...🤷
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