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  #41  
Old 07-25-2019, 01:21 PM
Frank Almanza Frank Almanza is offline
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I'm pretty sure that I would not be comfortable enough to play the kick shot especially if a little left English is needed.

I don't think I would have enough confidence to roll the cue ball 18 feet and hope that the table is level enough for it to stay on line. Speed is critical too.

I still like my shot of putting the twelve in a good position for a bank and leaving him on the foot rail. At the worse it takes one ball out of play with little chance for offense.
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  #42  
Old 07-25-2019, 01:41 PM
crabbcatjohn crabbcatjohn is offline
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Ok, I dont know if this has been mentioned but this is my shot. The problem I see here is the cue ball is in my hole so I cant maneuver easily. But. I'm on 7 so I want to keep it simple. I would roll the three on to the bottom of 5 and tie them both up, but still sort of facing my hole while laying the cue ball as close to the 12 as possible. I still have 3 balls by my hole and he has no shot or a very difficult safe. his next shot will almost certainly leave me a bank somewhere or an escape. I think sometimes we forget that having balls tied up by your hole can actually be a good thing when your on 7.
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  #43  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:22 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
That is a bit harsh there, Tom Tom, but, I do accept your apology. You know that pool players learn by experience and gain confidence by successful experience, whether in practice or while playing.

I have never played that shot before, and would venture a guess that most of us on here have not either. I would also suppose that once I shot this kick successfully, I would know how to hit it, how much english was needed, and generally be more comfortable with it. Probably could achieve similar results as you did.

Unfortunately when in this situation, while gambling I don't get 10 tries (quite a different circumstance than being on your practice table).

I am pretty sure you don't expect that people watch your videos (which are very good btw) and immediately attempt to execute what you are teaching, do you? I accept that you have shown your shot to be viable, but in this situation, when the question is what shot gives you the best opportunity to win, and I only get one chance, the intentional I describe has to be a contender.

Maybe I am unteachable.

JMHO
Darryl, Yes, I do indeed expect anyone who has an interest in learning any of these shots to take them to a table and begin experimenting with them. How else will you discover how to play them under the stress of game situations and how are you to feel comfortable attempting these shots without having some experience with them? What can go wrong during a practice session? Answer, nothing, just more knowledge. What I found frustrating about your previous post was your willingness to suggest the shot was less than predictable without having tried it before hand.

Unteachable? Certainly not! WE both know better than that.

With great regard and respect,

Tom
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  #44  
Old 07-25-2019, 03:06 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Almanza View Post
I'm pretty sure that I would not be comfortable enough to play the kick shot especially if a little left English is needed.

I don't think I would have enough confidence to roll the cue ball 18 feet and hope that the table is level enough for it to stay on line. Speed is critical too.

I still like my shot of putting the twelve in a good position for a bank and leaving him on the foot rail. At the worse it takes one ball out of play with little chance for offense.
Hi Frank, I first want to say I"m very please you are feeling better these days. We were all a little worried about you there for awhile but you are a fighter through and through.

As I mentioned to Darmoose, and you know this as well as anyone, a little practice of these type shots goes a long way to building confidence during game time. These shots come up, and being better prepared happens at the practice table. Even Roger Federer "The GOAT" practices new things. Efren Reyes practices new ideas all the time. Can any of us do less?

Tom
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  #45  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:54 PM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
Darryl, Yes, I do indeed expect anyone who has an interest in learning any of these shots to take them to a table and begin experimenting with them. How else will you discover how to play them under the stress of game situations and how are you to feel comfortable attempting these shots without having some experience with them? What can go wrong during a practice session? Answer, nothing, just more knowledge. What I found frustrating about your previous post was your willingness to suggest the shot was less than predictable without having tried it before hand.

Unteachable? Certainly not! WE both know better than that.

With great regard and respect,

Tom
Tom,

I misspoke when I asked if you expected us to take your video shots and try to execute them right away. I meant to say "execute them in a game situation right away". I agree, take them to the table and practice them to get the confidence to actually use them.

...and I do hope I am not unteachable. You are right about that as well.

I was just saying, like Frank, that when comparing your shot with my shot, not having practiced it previously, I could not be comfortable doing that. I also still respectfully still wonder which shot would lead to winning a higher percentage of games from there?

Out of curiosity (as a learning exp) what would you do if I put the CB up on the top rail at the first diamond and now it's your shot?

I don't have a table at home, but next time at the poolroom I will try your shot.

You're doing good work, Tom.

Darrell
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  #46  
Old 07-25-2019, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
Shoot into the 12 using low right english, the cue ball then goes into and draws off the 1 and makes the 3. Game over! Feels like chess! Whitey
This I've got to see. Whitey, can you set it up and show us this shot in one of your videos?

Tom
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Last edited by Tom Wirth; 07-25-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-25-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmoose View Post
Tom,

I misspoke when I asked if you expected us to take your video shots and try to execute them right away. I meant to say "execute them in a game situation right away". I agree, take them to the table and practice them to get the confidence to actually use them.

...and I do hope I am not unteachable. You are right about that as well.

I was just saying, like Frank, that when comparing your shot with my shot, not having practiced it previously, I could not be comfortable doing that. I also still respectfully still wonder which shot would lead to winning a higher percentage of games from there?

Out of curiosity (as a learning exp) what would you do if I put the CB up on the top rail at the first diamond and now it's your shot?

I don't have a table at home, but next time at the poolroom I will try your shot.

You're doing good work, Tom.

Darrell
Darrell, Sorry I misspelled your name last time.
If you were to take a foul and leave the cue ball up table where I had no view of the 3 ball I would then be force to try to clear all three balls with a firm approx half ball hit on the right side of the 12. This is nothing but what Freddy The Beard would have called a "fram" shot. One of those shots where the thought is "I don't know where they're going but they ain't staying there"

Remember, you now need two. Chances are not terrible that I will escape only giving up a bank. At least I have a decent shot at clearing those three balls.

Tom
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  #48  
Old 07-26-2019, 02:35 AM
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catkins catkins is offline
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Ilike three railing the 10 out of play and drawing to the foot rail to put him straight in on the combo to my pocket
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  #49  
Old 07-26-2019, 08:40 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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FWIW, I set the shot up, and had no trouble rolling the CB the length of the table, up and back, and hitting the 12 or the 1. As long as the shooter is capable of hitting center axis cue ball, the lag is very simple. I only went wide once, and that was due to an over adjustment when the ball actually came back at too narrow of an angle.

I'm not sure I would have recognized the possibility of this shot of Jerry's. But it's a good shot to know, for sure.

~Doc
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  #50  
Old 07-27-2019, 01:35 AM
J.R. J.R. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
JR, needing one and opponent needing 4 that's not a bad play. Neither was Dustin's shot though he didn't hit it very well. The only issue I have with these shots which involve moving the 12 is that they all expose the 1 and 3 balls and make it easy for the opponent to remove them from a very advantageous position.
Okay, so Chris clears them and they go up table and the fight goes on. With a 7 to 4 lead you are most likely to win this game but it's also more likely to take considerably longer to do so.

I'll stick with the kick thanks. Have you set it up and tried it?
Some kicks are simple to execute. You may find this is one of them.

Tom
Tom, I did set up the lay-up of the table as posted. I attempted your shot with limited success on the first few tries. The first shot was too slow and did not come in contact with any of the three balls by the corner pocket. The second shot missed the 12-ball and double kissed the 1-ball leaving a cross corner bank of the 12-ball. The third shot hit the 12-ball which double kissed on the 3-ball while the cue ball stopped near the 1-ball. I became more proficient at kicking the cue ball to the 12-ball the more times I shot it. I have come to the conclusion that its the "right shot" if I need 3 or more balls and I can trust the roll of the pool table for a slowly rolling cue ball over a 17 and 1/2 foot distance kick shot.

Further, I am not advocating that the KISS shot I proposed is the correct shot. I am advocating that the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) shot (thinly slicing the 12-ball while sending the cue ball down table toward the end rail) is the correct shot if I only needed one ball and my opponent needed four balls. This would undoubtedly be my shot given the circumstances presented in the original post and the lay-out of the table.
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