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  #31  
Old 07-24-2019, 08:25 AM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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I haven't paid too much attention to this WWYD because it seemed to not have many good choices, but I do want to say this. I very rarely take an intentional foul, and nothing is more adverse to my instincts than deliberately "coming off the hill".

I don't think I could bring myself to kick at the balls coming off the top rail. It appears that one would have to put some english on the CB to accomplish a good hit, as the CB now sits inside the pocket and would require me too shoot slightly away from the long side rail and bring the CB back with some amount of spin......

and, if I did, I have no idea how the balls would end up. I could even sell out attempting this as the one ball could go toward "his" hole.

If ever I was going to take an intentional, and if ever I was going to deliberately "jump" off the hill, this would be the time.

I have to lag the CB to the top rail, put a ball on the spot (I think the 2 is already there, so no shot there), and watch him struggle with those three balls near my hole. My thinking is if he goes to the right he scratches, if he goes to the left he may very well make a ball for me and/or sell out the game. I think perhaps his best option from the top rail would be to hit em hard and hope.

Can't move the 12 ball on my shot.
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Last edited by darmoose; 07-24-2019 at 08:53 AM. Reason: error
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  #32  
Old 07-24-2019, 08:27 AM
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cincy_kid cincy_kid is offline
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I look at taking intentionals where it makes sense and maybe this is one of those times, but my personal thoughts are, I need 1, that's a BIG difference than needing 2. I probably would not have taken an intentional here. I would have probably tried to razor thin the l/s of the 12 and get up near the opposite corner pocket hopefully blocking the 1 and or 3....I have to get some other shots together, I love reading other players' takes on things and learning along the way, thanks for the replies all!

edit - looking at the shot again, I cant do what I suggested, I may have tried what Dustin did too and hopefully got it up closer to the corner, but its a good point tom made about being close to the OB, makes it much harder to get that good follow through without fouling.
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  #33  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:02 PM
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I am surprised Tom W did not like my carom bank of the 12 off the 2. I think it's safer then that long kick?
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  #34  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:28 PM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Big "O", You compel me to respond.
YIKES!

You do remember my One Pocket montra
CONTROLLED AGGRESSION!!!

Emphasis on CONTROLLED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are we having fun yet?

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  #35  
Old 07-25-2019, 05:17 AM
J.R. J.R. is offline
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This is a complex WWYD situation. First, the score is 7 to 4. The shooter is on the hill and needs only one. Second, no balls are down table although three balls are within inches of the shooter's pocket.

I read all the posts and I'm still not sure what shot is the best shot. Therefore, I propose a "kiss" shot. "Kiss" as in KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid. The simplest shot that I (who can also be amicably referred to as Stupid) perceive is to thin the 12 ball (moving it as minimally as possible) and run the cue ball down table with the hopes of having it snuggle against or near the end rail leaving my opponent to consider the distance of making his shot if he opts to shoot at his pocket. If he makes it, he still needs three and I still need one.
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  #36  
Old 07-25-2019, 08:26 AM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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JR, needing one and opponent needing 4 that's not a bad play. Neither was Dustin's shot though he didn't hit it very well. The only issue I have with these shots which involve moving the 12 is that they all expose the 1 and 3 balls and make it easy for the opponent to remove them from a very advantageous position.
Okay, so Chris clears them and they go up table and the fight goes on. With a 7 to 4 lead you are most likely to win this game but it's also more likely to take considerably longer to do so.

I'll stick with the kick thanks. Have you set it up and tried it?
Some kicks are simple to execute. You may find this is one of them.

Tom
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  #37  
Old 07-25-2019, 08:29 AM
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Island Drive Island Drive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry matchin View Post
Kick one long rail at the balls by my hole.
I like how you think Jer.

While everyone else is thinking of getting the cue ball ''away'' from the pocket, your choice was just the opposite.
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  #38  
Old 07-25-2019, 08:40 AM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. View Post
This is a complex WWYD situation. First, the score is 7 to 4. The shooter is on the hill and needs only one. Second, no balls are down table although three balls are within inches of the shooter's pocket.

I read all the posts and I'm still not sure what shot is the best shot. Therefore, I propose a "kiss" shot. "Kiss" as in KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid. The simplest shot that I (who can also be amicably referred to as Stupid) perceive is to thin the 12 ball (moving it as minimally as possible) and run the cue ball down table with the hopes of having it snuggle against or near the end rail leaving my opponent to consider the distance of making his shot if he opts to shoot at his pocket. If he makes it, he still needs three and I still need one.
J R,

I think your analysis is right on. KISS is in order here for sure. Where we seem to differ is what is the most simple move here. Surely, just rolling the CB to the top rail is the most simple shot. So, what move gives us the best chance of winning this game?

I think the key to answering that question is the location of the 12 ball. Second most is that there is NO shot on that 2 ball after you spot another ball. Coming off the "hill" is not an easy decision, but if successfully executed the intentional foul to the top rail guarantees you can't lose on his next shot, and you have probably the same chance of winning as you had previously.

Moving that 12 ball and allowing him access to hit the 3 and the 1 balls gives him an out from an otherwise difficult if not impossible situation.

JMHO

Incidentally, at the risk of attracting ire, I must say I think the kick from the top rail, back to those three balls is an unacceptable risk for my money as it is totally unpredictable in my opinion.
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  #39  
Old 07-25-2019, 11:36 AM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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I"m amazed. I sometimes feel like I'm beating a dead horse with some of you guys. I guess some people are unteachable. Neve wishing to step outside their own comfort zone even in practice. Maybe I'm being too harsh. If so I apologize, but this kick shot is one of the easiest and near full proof kick shots. There is a huge window for this kick. I just set it up and out of ten times I made the 12 twice, hung it up twice, Hung the 3 ball up with a carom off the 1 ball three times, sold out the 1 in doing so in such a way as to not allow for any follow up shots to his hole. always struck a ball, and only once allowed a position where the incoming player was able to play safe behind the 12 and 3.

Now I ask you, how much more predictable can you ask for? And one more question for those of you who feel the shot is not the best shot in this situation. HAVE YOU TRIED IT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU CHOSE TO DISMISS IT!?

Tom
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  #40  
Old 07-25-2019, 12:43 PM
darmoose darmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
I"m amazed. I sometimes feel like I'm beating a dead horse with some of you guys. I guess some people are unteachable. Neve wishing to step outside their own comfort zone even in practice. Maybe I'm being too harsh. If so I apologize, but this kick shot is one of the easiest and near full proof kick shots. There is a huge window for this kick. I just set it up and out of ten times I made the 12 twice, hung it up twice, Hung the 3 ball up with a carom off the 1 ball three times, sold out the 1 in doing so in such a way as to not allow for any follow up shots to his hole. always struck a ball, and only once allowed a position where the incoming player was able to play safe behind the 12 and 3.

Now I ask you, how much more predictable can you ask for? And one more question for those of you who feel the shot is not the best shot in this situation. HAVE YOU TRIED IT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU CHOSE TO DISMISS IT!?

Tom

That is a bit harsh there, Tom Tom, but, I do accept your apology. You know that pool players learn by experience and gain confidence by successful experience, whether in practice or while playing.

I have never played that shot before, and would venture a guess that most of us on here have not either. I would also suppose that once I shot this kick successfully, I would know how to hit it, how much english was needed, and generally be more comfortable with it. Probably could achieve similar results as you did.

Unfortunately when in this situation, while gambling I don't get 10 tries (quite a different circumstance than being on your practice table).

I am pretty sure you don't expect that people watch your videos (which are very good btw) and immediately attempt to execute what you are teaching, do you? I accept that you have shown your shot to be viable, but in this situation, when the question is what shot gives you the best opportunity to win, and I only get one chance, the intentional I describe has to be a contender.

Maybe I am unteachable.

JMHO
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