rule question

onepockethacker · Mar 30, 2014

Some guys just called me from the pool hall and wanted to know what the rule was on a situation that just happened.
A guy was shooting and he fouled the cue ball. He spotted a ball and then had a brain fart and picked up the cue ball and rolled it down table behind the head string. What happens in this situation?

Cary · Mar 30, 2014

It's obviously another foul, the question is whether it is a standard foul or unsportsmanlike conduct. If a reasonably friendly game, I'd say the cue ball goes back where it was, as best as can be determined, and spot another ball. If a not so friendly game, pay up.

ETA: I did check the rule books and couldn't find this specific situation.

Tom Wirth · Mar 30, 2014

onepockethacker said:
Some guys just called me from the pool hall and wanted to know what the rule was on a situation that just happened.
A guy was shooting and he fouled the cue ball. He spotted a ball and then had a brain fart and picked up the cue ball and rolled it down table behind the head string. What happens in this situation?

All I know is the first thing I'm going to do is LMAO! :lol:lol:lol

Tom

I guess if this guy is offering you ball in hand....take it if it helps!

straightback · Mar 30, 2014

I think the proper thing is two balls on the spot with ball in hand behind the head string.

It would suck if the CB was in a place where you had a down table runout and then, all the sudden, you were forced to shoot from behind the line.

I suppose that if one had their wits about them and wanted to cheat, you could obtain some sort of advantage by doing this on purpose and, in the process, only being penalized one ball.

gulfportdoc · Mar 30, 2014

Well, that's a weird one! It's not unsportsmanlike conduct, because he did not do something wrong intentionally

Technically he would owe another ball (and be on two fouls), and the opponent should be able to replace the cue ball as near as he could to where it was.

But if I were refereeing the match, I would simply have the opponent replace the CB, and not assess a foul. And even in a private match, that solution seems the most likely. (In tournament play, if the guy had done it with malice, then it could be loss of game, set, or even match; and a stern warning would be issued.)

Doc

straightback · Mar 30, 2014

What if the guy was already on one foul before all this went down? Does he lose the game for his three consecutive fouls?!?

Mkbtank · Mar 30, 2014

rule question

straightback said:
What if the guy was already on one foul before all this went down? Does he lose the game for his three consecutive fouls?!?

As I learned here....."only if you want to lose a customer..." (If a money match)

Miller · Mar 30, 2014

gulfportdoc said:
Well, that's a weird one! It's not unsportsmanlike conduct, because he did not do something wrong intentionally

Technically he would owe another ball (and be on two fouls), and the opponent should be able to replace the cue ball as near as he could to where it was.

But if I were refereeing the match, I would simply have the opponent replace the CB, and not assess a foul. And even in a private match, that solution seems the most likely. (In tournament play, if the guy had done it with malice, then it could be loss of game, set, or even match; and a stern warning would be issued.)

Doc

i think so also. (i'm one of the dummies that has had a brain fart and accidentally done this before....once....just once

)

(thankfully figueroa didn't wrap his gina around my head

)

beatle · Mar 31, 2014

in any non tournament game the opponent puts its back where he thinks it was before it was picked up. just like if you bumped a ball with your hand by accident.
same as if your shirt touched and moved the cue ball while you were doing something.

technically it is a foul.

NH Steve · Mar 31, 2014

I am pretty sure the general rules only allow one foul per shot, hard as you might try to commit multiples, lol. So it is just one foul -- opponent would have to shoot in between for it to be two. How to handle where the cue ball goes?It was also stated that it was a brain fart -- those usually are not intentional, so I can't see considering it a loss of game. I would probably give the incoming player choice of where they guilty player set the ball down, or where it was when he picked it up -- because mainly you do not want to penalize the incoming shooter for the other guy's brain fart. I could even see giving the incoming shooter ball in hand, because that is what the guy that had the brain fart was doing.

By the way, in the CSI One Pocket rules, one thing they added to the OnePocket.org rules (which are essentially what they use), was that in certain situations where a player is guilty of using illegal means to gain a cue cue ball location (like an intentional double hit to pinch the cue ball to the inside of a pocket point), ball in hand is what the incoming player gets. This would be one of those situations, in my opinion.

onepockethacker · Mar 31, 2014

I suggested the incoming player can either put the cue ball back where he thought it was or he can take ball in hand behind the head string. Thanks for everyone's opinions. I think its interesting that it isn't specifically covered anywhere.
P.S. I do have one question for everyone who gave an opinion... If you were playing your mortal enemy would your ruling be the same?

tylerdurden · Mar 31, 2014

I think it should just be loss of game.

I am not sure why we, as pool players, are so pleasant to our opponents when they make huge blunders on the table, and total homicidal maniacs at all other times. This is loss of game, I am not sure why we want to sugar coat things. I think multiple fouls during any one shot should be loss of game, or it could very conceivably be taken advantage of if the penalties are not enforced. AND, since when in the hell does a "brain fart" or "not meaning to do something" matter in sport!!! This is all said with the underlying truth that you are never going to get a ball back to its exact original location.

I think the 2nd best solution is incoming player replaces the cb to where he thought it was, with no influence from fouler.

gulfportdoc · Mar 31, 2014

tylerdurden said:
I think it should just be loss of game.

I am not sure why we, as pool players, are so pleasant to our opponents when they make huge blunders on the table, and total homicidal maniacs at all other times. This is loss of game, I am not sure why we want to sugar coat things. I think multiple fouls during any one shot should be loss of game, or it could very conceivably be taken advantage of if the penalties are not enforced. AND, since when in the hell does a "brain fart" or "not meaning to do something" matter in sport!!! This is all said with the underlying truth that you are never going to get a ball back to its exact original location.

I think the 2nd best solution is incoming player replaces the cb to where he thought it was, with no influence from fouler.

It would not be loss of game in tournament play. However, in private play, if the opponent could convince the perpetrator that he should agree to loss of game, then more power to him...

Doc

straightback · Mar 31, 2014

How about this scenario: I owe a ball. As I'm paying it up, I accidentally drop it on to the stack, scattering the balls everywhere. Foul? Loss of game? Neither? Rerack and start over?

tylerdurden · Apr 2, 2014

gulfportdoc said:
It would not be loss of game in tournament play. However, in private play, if the opponent could convince the perpetrator that he should agree to loss of game, then more power to him...

Doc

Call me crazy, but I think if the rule is loss of game, then he should probably lose the game.

I am not sure why we think making a HUGE blunder is not enough to lose a single game of one pocket. We lose single games all the time for a lot less.

NH Steve · Apr 2, 2014

straightback said:
How about this scenario: I owe a ball. As I'm paying it up, I accidentally drop it on to the stack, scattering the balls everywhere. Foul? Loss of game? Neither? Rerack and start over?

No foul, because when you are spotting a ball, you are actually acting in the role of the referee -- spotting balls is their job. Interesting though, a referee might look at it differently if a player themselves (in a refereed match) reached for a ball and went to spot it themselves and bumped a ball, because in that case, they are not supposed to be touching the balls!

Anyway, from our rules:

6.7 It shall not be a foul to accidentally touch the cue ball while removing an object ball from an adjacent pocket, or when spotting a ball where the cue ball interferes. It shall be a foul for the incoming shooter to accidentally touch an object ball with the cue ball while placing it in a ball in hand situation.

Whether you re-racked or just did the best you could replacing the balls would be up to the players, or a stand in official (such as the houseman) if the players could not agree.

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