Estimating No-Throw "Gearing" Sidespin

Patrick Johnson

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Jul 31, 2008
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[WARNING: SCIENCE AHEAD - TURN BACK NOW!]

Most of us know that hitting a cut shot with outside sidespin can eliminate ball/ball friction and the resulting contact throw, if the amount of sidespin is just right for that cut angle. But if we apply too little or too much sidespin, then throw isn't fully eliminated (and may be increased or even reversed).

Is there a simple way to know in advance how much sidespin is the right amount to just eliminate contact throw? Here's a simple method that I dreamed up, using the fractional CB/OB overlap for the cut angle you're shooting and the fraction of maximum sidespin you're applying. The general rule is:

"Gearing" (no throw) sidespin = the fraction of maximum sidespin that, when added to the CB/OB overlap fraction, totals 1.

In other words,

- 3/4 ball hit: 1/4 maximum sidespin*
- 1/2 ball hit: 1/2 maximum sidespin*
- 1/4 ball hit: 3/4 maximum sidespin*

Note 1: Of course the amount of sidespin you want usually depends on where you want the CB to go, so usually this technique can only tell you how close your desired sidespin is to the no-throw amount.

Note 2: Maximum sidespin = 1/2 distance from CB center to edge.

Hope it helps somebody (or is at least interesting),

pj
chgo

*For you geometry geeks (I know you're out there :)): the precise sidespin fraction is 80% of the above amounts, but that's too much math for a rule of thumb (especially one based on imprecise estimated cut angle fractions).
 
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LSJohn

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Aug 15, 2013
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monett missouri
[WARNING: SCIENCE AHEAD - TURN BACK NOW!]

the precise sidespin fraction is 80% of the above amounts, but that's too much math for a rule of thumb

Oh, thanks for the correction... no wonder I've been having trouble... I've been using 78.5%. :eek:

(Interesting stuff, for real. Thanks.)
 

poolisboring

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Dec 31, 2016
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toledo
[WARNING: SCIENCE AHEAD - TURN BACK NOW!]

Most of us know that hitting a cut shot with outside sidespin can eliminate ball/ball friction and the resulting contact throw, if the amount of sidespin is just right for that cut angle. But if we apply too little or too much sidespin, then throw isn't fully eliminated (and may be increased or even reversed).

Is there a simple way to know in advance how much sidespin is the right amount to just eliminate contact throw? Here's a simple method that I dreamed up, using the fractional CB/OB overlap for the cut angle you're shooting and the fraction of maximum sidespin you're applying. The general rule is:

"Gearing" (no throw) sidespin = the fraction of maximum sidespin that, when added to the CB/OB overlap fraction, totals 1.

In other words,

- 3/4 ball hit: 1/4 maximum sidespin*
- 1/2 ball hit: 1/2 maximum sidespin*
- 1/4 ball hit: 3/4 maximum sidespin*

Note 1: Of course the amount of sidespin you want usually depends on where you want the CB to go, so usually this technique can only tell you how close your desired sidespin is to the no-throw amount.

Note 2: Maximum sidespin = 1/2 distance from CB center to edge.

Hope it helps somebody (or is at least interesting),

pj
chgo

*For you geometry geeks (I know you're out there :)): the precise sidespin fraction is 80% of the above amounts, but that's too much math for a rule of thumb (especially one based on imprecise estimated cut angle fractions).
i find this fascinating, but ive spent the last 10 years of my pool life trying to eliminate english and spin from my game, sometimes its just not possible of course, but i try to play pool these days with a minimum of english and cb movement......even in 9 ball......
 

androd

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New Braunfels tx.
i find this fascinating, but ive spent the last 10 years of my pool life trying to eliminate english and spin from my game, sometimes its just not possible of course, but i try to play pool these days with a minimum of english and cb movement......even in 9 ball......

Great Idea.
 

Patrick Johnson

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ive spent the last 10 years of my pool life trying to eliminate english and spin from my game
Me too, but maybe not as ruthlessly as you have. For me, cue ball control is the "art" of the game, so I want to be good with spin (and it's fun :)).

pj
chgo
 

Scrzbill

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Eagles Rest, Wa
Math? That mean I have to think? Any pictures? I always thought that if you wanted no spin, you would use center. I marvel at opponents who use center most of the time. What determination. If I ever get my table set up I may look at the math again. I have one of Joe Porper's aiming technic books. Lots of math and diagrams. When I play, either I am on or I am off and I could not tell anyone how I aim except to tell them to find the center of the object ball. My problem is finding that spot. If I can see it, then the cue ball is directed to that spot using high, low, left, right. Math? Have you got something for arm speed, a gadget that keeps my head down?
I feel pool is way off for me. I am thinking of getting a room next to a local room in Kentucky, or Philly, Sacramento, maybe Chicago if the Cubs get to the World Series to play someone cheap for ten days.
 
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Patrick Johnson

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...and here's one of mine showing the same technique for "gearing" English when kicking (to "true" the rebound angle).

This illustration shows that the same principle works for eliminating ball/cloth friction when kicking, so the CB rebounds at close to a true equal angle (assuming no follow or draw spin). Imagine that the rail is actually an OB that you're cutting at a 45 degree angle (the line perpendicular to the rail is equivalent to the cut angle). A 45 degree cut is about a 1/4 CB/OB overlap, so my simplified technique tells us to use 3/4 of maximum sidespin for gearing outside sidespin (you can see that's where the tip is contacting the CB), so the CB "rolls naturally" along the rail.

pj
chgo

P.S. The same principle also produces instant "natural roll" along the table surface when hitting with follow. Imagine the surface is an OB that you're "cutting" straight down toward the floor - that would be zero CB/OB overlap, so you apply full maximum follow: zero plus 1 = 1 (or to be exact, 80% of full follow).

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straightback

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owensboro, ky
i find this fascinating, but ive spent the last 10 years of my pool life trying to eliminate english and spin from my game, sometimes its just not possible of course, but i try to play pool these days with a minimum of english and cb movement......even in 9 ball......

While I admire that, I can't imagine playing 1p without loads of English.
 
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