How many balls must contact a rail on (kick break)?

Triple Smart · Jul 8, 2015

It has been argued in the room i play in. Some say 2 must contact the rail, while the old guys say one. It hasn't been the most popular break in my time so im not "officially" sure?

gulfportdoc · Jul 8, 2015

One ball (either the cue ball OR an object ball) must contact a rail after contacting the rack of balls. Simply pocketing a ball would also count as a legal break. However if the balls are struck only with enough speed to propel a ball to a rail, it's not possible that a ball would pocket.

~Doc

Triple Smart · Jul 8, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
One ball (either the cue ball OR an object ball) must contact a rail after contacting the rack of balls. Simply pocketing a ball would also count as a legal break. However if the balls are struck only with enough speed to propel a ball to a rail, it's not possible that a ball would pocket.

~Doc

Thank's,Doc i pulled this old break out the stable yesterday on an older fella i play often. My opponet said one ball is legal and the owner of the room said: you must drive 2 balls to the rail on that break, or its a foul. I couldn't see a specific ruling being in place for (one) that particular break. Didnt make sense to me. I think, they just dont like recovering from it lol

androd · Jul 8, 2015

Triple Smart said:
Thank's,Doc i pulled this old break out the stable on an older fella i play often. My opponet said one ball is legal and the owner of the room said: you must drive 2 balls to the rail on that break, or its a foul. I couldn't see a specific ruling being in place for (one) that particular break. Didnt make sense to me. I think, they just dont like recovering from it lol

Well it seems backwards to me, the owner must be old also.

The rule years ago was 2balls must contact to be a legal break.
There were no written rules, so we used straight pool rules.

Lately the "powers to be" changed it to 1ball to a rail, which makes the break easier and more effective.

Played against this break often in the 60's.
Rod.
P.S. Around here the old guys say 2, the young guys say 1.

Triple Smart · Jul 8, 2015

androd said:
Well it seems backwards to me, the owner must be old also.

The rule years ago was 2balls must contact to be a legal break.
There were no written rules, so we used straight pool rules.

Lately the "powers to be" changed it to 1ball to a rail, which makes the break easier and more effective.

Played against this break often in the 60's.
Rod.
P.S. Around here the old guys say 2, the young guys say 1.

Well that makes perfect sense. The owner is 70 and he said thats how they played it in the 60's, when he had a room up in Chicago.

petie · Jul 8, 2015

androd said:
Well it seems backwards to me, the owner must be old also.

The rule years ago was 2balls must contact to be a legal break.
There were no written rules, so we used straight pool rules.

Lately the "powers to be" changed it to 1ball to a rail, which makes the break easier and more effective.

Played against this break often in the 60's.
Rod.
P.S. Around here the old guys say 2, the young guys say 1.

Years ago I was sweating a match between Miami and Cos (erstwhile part owner of "Hall of Fame" in Detroit. After a weak break someone asked Miami what constitutes a legal break. He said, "Anything."

Triple Smart · Jul 8, 2015

petie said:
Years ago I was sweating a match between Miami and Cos (erstwhile part owner of "Hall of Fame" in Detroit. After a weak break someone asked Miami what constitutes a legal break. He said, "Anything."

I dont use it that often but at certain times i like it. It is a good "situational" break. Most young players i play, hate it because they dont get out of it well. I always played the old guy's growing up, so i learned how to escape it.

NH Steve · Jul 8, 2015

When I began assembling the One Pocket rules that we adopted as "official" here on OnePocket.org about 10 years ago (and which are generally accepted as the official rules), I consulted with oldtimers like Grady and Freddy and others. But I also referenced older versions of the rules. The oldest rules I found were the rules that the Jansco brothers had distributed for their first tournament, which was in 1961. Remember, prior to 1961 there had never been a major One Pocket tournament. One Pocket rules were first published in book form in Fats endorsed rule book, which was still a year or two before the BCA deigned to get involved with One Pocket, and Fats used the Jansco rules I heard from older Jansco people (heresay) that it was Hayden Lingo that penned the rules for Jansco, but who really knows at this point.

The Jansco rules regarding the break were just like ours -- either the cue ball or at least one object ball (just like any other legal safety).

Unfortunately when the BCA began to include their over-simplified One Pocket rules they did not really have a clue as to how the game was actually played, considering it was primarily a gambling game back then, and gambling was anathema to the BCA boys -- therefore there have been some BCA introduced rule confusions ever since. The major One Pocket tournaments these days all use the OnePocket.org rules or a close cousin derived from our rules.

petie · Jul 8, 2015

NH Steve said:
When I began assembling the One Pocket rules that we adopted as "official" here on OnePocket.org about 10 years ago (and which are generally accepted as the official rules), I consulted with oldtimers like Grady and Freddy and others. But I also referenced older versions of the rules. The oldest rules I found were the rules that the Jansco brothers had distributed for their first tournament, which was in 1961. Remember, prior to 1961 there had never been a major One Pocket tournament. One Pocket rules were first published in book form in Fats endorsed rule book, which was still a year or two before the BCA deigned to get involved with One Pocket, and Fats used the Jansco rules I heard from older Jansco people (heresay) that it was Hayden Lingo that penned the rules for Jansco, but who really knows at this point.

The Jansco rules regarding the break were just like ours -- either the cue ball or at least one object ball (just like any other legal safety).

Unfortunately when the BCA began to include their over-simplified One Pocket rules they did not really have a clue as to how the game was actually played, considering it was primarily a gambling game back then, and gambling was anathema to the BCA boys -- therefore there have been some BCA introduced rule confusions ever since. The major One Pocket tournaments these days all use the OnePocket.org rules or a close cousin derived from our rules.

And may it ever be so.

gulfportdoc · Jul 8, 2015

Triple Smart said:
Well that makes perfect sense. The owner is 70 and he said thats how they played it in the 60's, when he had a room up in Chicago.

He's probably telling the truth. Prior to 1P getting common play, straight pool was THE tournament game. In that game, 3 balls must contact a rail on the break shot: 2 object balls, plus the cue ball. So the breaker is considered to be at a disadvantage with the break. Whoever wins the lag or coin toss gives the break to the opponent. But in 1P, obviously the break is an advantage.

~Doc

beatle · Jul 8, 2015

it was always played in my neck of the woods the break shot was the same as any other shot. or it was a scratch.

but i would guess if someone asked if they could break without it being a scratch as they wanted to not have a ball hit a rail no one in their right mind would not agree to it.

u12armresl · Jul 9, 2015

I've played the side rail break in tournaments and action all over, and rarely is there a question. Side rail, pack, ball from pack hits rail, your shot.

Triple Smart · Jul 9, 2015

u12armresl said:
I've played the side rail break in tournaments and action all over, and rarely is there a question. Side rail, pack, ball from pack hits rail, your shot.

I have never used it regularly. I will however sometimes if i get a guy down 3-0 or the like in a race to 4, just to add a little more pressure. I have no problem driving 2 to the rail, if thats what they want. As long as whitey is stuck, thats the whole point to me. I have avoided using it at times because it was in question as to how many must go to the rail.

u12armresl · Jul 10, 2015

No need for it to be in question.

Unless you are in an unfriendly room where you have people ganging up on you.

I'm glad to hear someone else uses it too. Do you gamble and tournament with it, or just for fun.

Triple Smart said:
I have never used it regularly. I will however sometimes if i get a guy down 3-0 or the like in a race to 4, just to add a little more pressure. I have no problem driving 2 to the rail, if thats what they want. As long as whitey is stuck, thats the whole point to me. I have avoided using it at times because it was in question as to how many must go to the rail.

Triple Smart · Jul 10, 2015

u12armresl said:
No need for it to be in question.

Unless you are in an unfriendly room where you have people ganging up on you.

I'm glad to hear someone else uses it too. Do you gamble and tournament with it, or just for fun.

The only time i have used it, is while gambling. There are no one pocket tournaments near me. Unless i drive 3 or 4 hours. The closest one to me is about an hour away but your in a field of players like Frost , Orcullo, shane and the likes at a 2,000$ entry lol. Oh i would play but not at that high of an entry. Im on the bad of a gamble in that tournament lol

How many balls must contact a rail on (kick break)?

Triple Smart

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