Dudley
Verified Member
jay helfert said:Another wild and crazy shot. We call that a "sleep in the street" shot.
Not a shot I shoot every time I see it but I'll fire at it when the risk to reward ratio is good enough.
doright
S,M, & S Layout # 6
- Thread starter Cowboy Dennis
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Not a shot I shoot every time I see it but I'll fire at it when the risk to reward ratio is good enough.
doright
androd
Verified Member
wincardona said:When I played Ike in Chicago a race to 10 for $25,000 I shot this shot with the score tied at 9 apiece, made the bank and later on in the run dogged a shot and lost. Point being that this shot is so sweet that I had no problem shooting it in such a crucial situation. Ask The Beard.
Rodney, by the way I shot this shot after Ike broke the balls, it was beautifull to watch, but unfortunately the ending was ugly.
Billy; I can't imaging not looking for this shot after the break, it often turns the game around completly.
Rod.< ----still a gofer, but most that don't shoot at their pocket, duck me.
PS; hope you're felling better.
jay helfert
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wincardona said:
Jay, I learned this shot from Eddie Kelly in the late 70's and put many players in the street, and car sleeping, shooting it on them. This shot is a natural, and it is easy to controll the cue ball not only with the angle shown, but also with many other variations of the shot. If you like playing onepocket, you must develope the feel for these kinds of shots and add them to your arsenal. By the way, kicking 3 to 4 cushions is also a strong shot, used by just about all the top onepocket players. Here's the cement, Ronnie Allen liked this shot too.
Sorry Billy, I really don't like the angle on the 13 ball and how thin you have to hit it. You are turning the cue ball loose here. Too far to travel with too small a margin for error.
Maybe this is why you don't win all your matches anymore like you used to, shooting shots like this. You'll never sleep in the streets but you might be flying coach.
Ronnie would kick the 10 every time and run out from here. GUARANTEED! It's almost a hanger for him.
jay helfert said:
This bank shot described, as well as a long list of others that I'm sure we will discuss if we haven't already, are shots where the object ball kind of takes care of itself as long as you take care of whitey. In other words, when shooting a shot like this it would behoove you to not think about how thin you need to hit the OB to get it near your hole, but think about where whitey needs to hit the first rail contacted in order to get around and behind the 10 ball. And if you think about the shot in terms of having to get your cue ball directly behind the 10 ball, then yes, it turns into a difficult shot. But really, we have about 6 to 12 inches of wiggle room for where the cue ball can contact the third rail and still get safely behind the 10 (see cue balls A and B). 6 to 12 inches sounds like a lot to me considering most of us play on triple shimmed tables.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVFM4BVmK4CPwq4DPRJ4EDQj2FPja4GMPK4HJVL1IXwK3JQvY3KSLM3LCbQ3MUQl4NAOi4OScK4PWNg3QbBs3RbId3qPfUYOU_HAVE_POCKET_'A'&YOU_NEED_THREE_BALLS&ZZ@3AVFM4BVmK4CPwq4DPRJ4EDQj2FPja4GMPK4HJVL1IXwK3JQvY3KSLM3LCbQ3MUQl4NAOi4OScK4PWVg4Qdnv3qShVYOU_MAY_WANT_TO_HIT_THIS_SHOT_A_BIT_SOFTER_IF_THE_COMBINATION_ISN'T_QUITE_AS_DEAD-ON_AS_SHOWN_HERE&ZZ2raBdWHY_NOT_JUST_KICK_IN_THE_DEAD_COMBINATION_ON_THE_FOOT_RAIL_AND_RUN_OUT?_I'D_ONLY_NEED_TWO_MORE_BALLS._THE_MOVE_AS_SHOWN_WOULD_BE_BEST_IF_THE_SCORE_WERE_REVERSED.&&MARSHALL_CARPENTER&ZZ3sLKUTHESE_COMMENTS_FROM_THE_BOOK&ZZ@3AVFM4BVmK4CPwq4DPRJ4EDQj2FPja4GMPK4HJVL1IXwK3JQvY3KSLM3LCbQ3MUQl4NAOi4OScK4PWVg4Qdnv4YDQj4Ydno3eQvY3eRln3eafl2eREj4eUML3gCbQ3gCRI4iAOi4iDhk4kWVg3kPxH3kbKL3kFUl3kCSh3uBWJ@[/CUETABLE]
androd
Verified Member
jay helfert said:
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
True, how true
True, how true
Yes, William did do what he said, and when he said he did it. He got behind the balls perfectly and then, off of an easy shot, trying to go three rails and come back down into the "patch," he came short off the first rail and the cue ball scratched in the back pocket. Ike won the game, the match, and the $500 that I had bet on Sir William. Larry Swartz then ducked his head into a bucket of water and tried to drown himself but mercifully, somebody, it might have been Ike, pulled him out in time.
the Beard
True, how true
wincardona said:When I played Ike in Chicago a race to 10 for $25,000 I shot this shot with the score tied at 9 apiece, made the bank and later on in the run dogged a shot and lost. Point being that this shot is so sweet that I had no problem shooting it in such a crucial situation. Ask The Beard.
Rodney, by the way I shot this shot after Ike broke the balls, it was beautifull to watch, but unfortunately the ending was ugly.
Yes, William did do what he said, and when he said he did it. He got behind the balls perfectly and then, off of an easy shot, trying to go three rails and come back down into the "patch," he came short off the first rail and the cue ball scratched in the back pocket. Ike won the game, the match, and the $500 that I had bet on Sir William. Larry Swartz then ducked his head into a bucket of water and tried to drown himself but mercifully, somebody, it might have been Ike, pulled him out in time.
the Beard
gulfportdoc
Verified Member
Beard, I assume you're referring to Ike Runnels. In what year did this match take place?
Doc
Doc
CaliRed
Verified Member
gulfportdoc said:
I'm thinking it might have been in early 2006, according to these details. Freddy posted in the thread too. Sounds like it was some pretty big action including the rail.
http://forums.azbilliards.com//archive/index.php/t-29829.html
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
2006 or 2007
2006 or 2007
Those years sound about right. There was probably about a 60k takedown altogether. Billy hung the session ball twice.
the beard
2006 or 2007
CaliRed said:
Those years sound about right. There was probably about a 60k takedown altogether. Billy hung the session ball twice.
the beard
jay helfert
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androd said:
jay helfert
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senor said:
It's a lot easier to kick at the ten ball. A lot! Hard to go wrong here and you can win the game NOW!
I'd bet just about anyone I can win the game faster shooting that shot than the other one shooting off the thirteen ball. Put us both in the same position and see who wins the game first. I'll act as your opponent and you can be mine. Let's play!
androd
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jay helfert said:
Artie Bodendorfer
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I Would kick at the 14 ball and the balls will open up pirfect were you can run all 5 balls and get position on the 6 ball 13 ball and nine ball. For 8 and out. And by shooting that shot the balls open up perfect. And if you hit the 12 ball first rail first it will still be perfect. And If you hit the 12 ball thin you will still make the 5 ball. THat Is The shot I would shoot instead of kicking into the ten ball. Because if you hit behind the balls its imposable to miss the 5 ball.jay helfert said:
jay helfert
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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I think I like your shot more than mine. Is it too late to change my mind? I haven't shot yet.
I was only worried that somehow I could miss the kick/combo on the fourteen/five ball, and sell out the game. It is a pretty big ball to make. Also you could make it and still come up funny for your next shot, but not likely either.
I'm betting on you Artie. Yeah, if you kick and hit the bottom rail and tickle the bottom of the twelve, the five has to go!
Artie Bodendorfer
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The reason I would shot it is because the balls will open up real nice and you can almost figure out were the balls will go. THe will not be to meny balls were the can lock up again. But either shot it good and the ten ball shot is a safer shot. But your target is so big I dont think you have to worry about playing safe. Because you have a very big target even hitting the 12 ball first. You could probably lay 15 to one that you would make the 5 ball. Even hitting the 11 ball into the 14 ball will make the5 ball. Hope you can get a shot like this to shot at.jay helfert said:I think I like your shot more than mine. Is it too late to change my mind? I haven't shot yet.
I was only worried that somehow I could miss the kick/combo on the fourteen/five ball, and sell out the game. It is a pretty big ball to make. Also you could make it and still come up funny for your next shot, but not likely either.
I'm betting on you Artie.
SJDinPHX
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jay helfert said:I think I like your shot more than mine. Is it too late to change my mind? I haven't shot yet.
I was only worried that somehow I could miss the kick/combo on the fourteen/five ball, and sell out the game. It is a pretty big ball to make. Also you could make it and still come up funny for your next shot, but not likely either.
I'm betting on you Artie. Yeah, if you kick and hit the bottom rail and tickle the bottom of the twelve, the five has to go!
I didn't respond Jay, but I felt that way all along. If I made up my mind to kick on this shot, it sure wouldnt be at the 10 ball, the 5 is wired, why would you try to shoot a kick combo at it. I would bet RA wouldn't. The 10 has to be hit almost good enough to make it in the hole, in order to make the 5 combo....not an easy kick from that angle, with the 10 that far off the rail.
Dick <---wishes he could win a dispute with Jay as easy as AB can. Artie knows I can give him the hit and 2 picks playing WEIn pocket....
Last edited:
jay helfert said:
Whooaa...Slow down there speed boat! I must have missed the thread where someone suggested the bank shot was a better shot than shooting at the dead hanger. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone ever suggested that figuring out a way to pocket the dead one wasn't the ONLY shot (my Artie moment). People post layouts and we wax up different shots. Nothing more.
But if we were to play, I would be shooting at the dead one, as well. How about it? You shoot from this layout 5 times and I shoot from this layout 5 times and we'll see who wins more. We'll have to change the count, though, in order to make it fair for everyone, we both need 4. Rod, I may have found incentive to come out of retirement!
Artie Bodendorfer
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THats Better For You Jay Needing 4 Balls the will all be open. You can almost bet even money you make 4 balls.senor said:
Artie Bodendorfer said:
I might bet even money that I run 4 balls from there with one shot at it. I don't know I would bet even money that I would get out more than 50% of the the time, though. I am assuming that if this situation were to be propositioned that I would get to shoot at least once on my opponent's "break."
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
senor said:
I can't wait to use this line on someone. Never heard that before.