Bank shots aiming

gulfportdoc · Jun 7, 2009

Watching so many great bank players at the recent DCC (plus reading Beard's books) has inspired me in the past few months to play bank pool for the first time in my life. I'm starting to catch on a little. Fortunately there are a couple of very good bank players in the area.

I've become fairly comfortable with cross-sides and cross-corners, but I still need lots of work on straight-backs.

I have a question for the good bank players out there. Do you generally aim at a portion of the OB; or do you pick your spot on the rail and aim it as if it were a "pocket"; or do you just have a spatial feel for the pattern, and just shoot the shot?

I've noticed that the traditional bank players seem to hit most shots very firm to hard, which shortens the angle to the pocket. But yet other good players seem to use more finesse.

Any advice on aiming straight-backs?

Doc

NH Steve · Jun 7, 2009

gulfportdoc said:
Watching so many great bank players at the recent DCC (plus reading Beard's books) has inspired me in the past few months to play bank pool for the first time in my life. I'm starting to catch on a little. Fortunately there are a couple of very good bank players in the area.

I've become fairly comfortable with cross-sides and cross-corners, but I still need lots of work on straight-backs.

I have a question for the good bank players out there. Do you generally aim at a portion of the OB; or do you pick your spot on the rail and aim it as if it were a "pocket"; or do you just have a spatial feel for the pattern, and just shoot the shot?

I've noticed that the traditional bank players seem to hit most shots very firm to hard, which shortens the angle to the pocket. But yet other good players seem to use more finesse.

Any advice on aiming straight-backs?

Doc

Well,I would not be the best person to ask, for sure, but I do find that one thing that helps me on banks is to shorten up my bridge, because it is easier to maintain a tighter control on exactly where I contact the cue ball, and because english makes such a big difference in how a bank is going to react, in my opinion.

Okay, I guess I didn't address the aiming question. I would say the closer the object ball is to the rail, the more you would have to rely on fractional aiming, as opposed to aiming for a spot along the rail, unless your aiming target is an imaginary one, like in the "mirror system", or "spot on the wall" system. I do use those a little to get an initial feel for the shot.

I hit all my banks best if I take the time to clearly visualize the entry angle into the first cushion, for sure. Once I get a good feel for that entry angle, then I feel comfortable getting into a stance and just "feeling the shot" from there.

Cowboy Dennis · Jun 7, 2009

gulfportdoc I have a question for the good bank players out there. Do you generally aim at a portion of the OB; or do you pick your spot on the rail and aim it as if it were a "pocket"; or do you just have a spatial feel for the pattern said:
Doc,

I'm not a 'top banker' by most peoples opinion, but I've always played banks slightly above my speed. I was playing 30 years ago against California John and Cornbread, among many others. and I learned a lot from them. I rarely won but it didn't cost much. John and I played with 15 balls. Red and I played with 9 balls.
I just aimed as you say with " a spatial feel for the pattern". I don't think I've ever particularly aimed a bank in my life. I'm sure that others do it differently. As in one-pocket you sometimes compromise on the hit, the aim and the speed to play position on your next shot.

One tip when playing banks. More than anything else, banks are all speed.

Dennis

chicagomike · Jun 7, 2009

Hey Doc!

Whenever people ask me how I improved so much I tell 'em that I read Freddie's 1st book, Banking with the Beard. I don't know why,but they have a hard time believing I could get that much from a book...

Well, it's true. I studied the book and became VERY familiar with the 2-1 ratio bank shots. From there I took the time to UNDERSTAND the what's, why's, and how much's, relative to where the cue ball may be positioned in relation to the bank shot when it is not a perfect 2-1 ratio.

From there I set up drills and became familiar with the bank shots that commonly show up.....It's that easy!!!!

Good luck with the practice!!!

One Pocket Ghost · Jun 7, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
Doc,

I just aimed as you say with " a spatial feel for the pattern". I don't think I've ever particularly aimed a bank in my life.

Dennis

I bank fairly strong, and I pretty much bump them the same way that Dennis does.....I just hit them with a spatial familiarity gained from 40 years of shooting the same bank shots....

The one exception for me is a twice cross-corner bank - and particularly a short twice cross-corner bank....with this bank I am specifically keying on/aiming for, the spot on the second rail that I want to hit in order to make the bank.

- Ghost

SJDinPHX · Jun 7, 2009

For having never played bank pool, I was always considered a pretty fair banker.
I know enough about bank pool, to know that most bank pool player's shoot with a pretty firm (if not often warp) speed, with usually some occasional afterthought as to safety, should you miss.

All that I have learned re; banking, I learned by shooting probably 80 to 90% of my banks at, or around, pocket speed. This would be common to all 1P specialists, whatever their skill level.

When I was still playing 9 ball, (all push-out in those days) I always felt confident, pushing out to a tough bank, and could execute most of them with whatever speed was called for.

It's been my observation that most 1P players have a completely different mindset, regarding how they approach a bank. I think most banks, in 1P, correct speed becomes as much, or more important, than making the ball.
Therefore I have never felt the need to learn "proper bank methods", as they quite often, may not even apply to one pocket.

Not all may agree, but for myself, I have always been comfortable with multi-rail, long rail, or side rail banks, shot at pocket speed.

While it never hurts to improve any aspect of your game, I guess I've learned to play, by feel and instinct, (or as Doc says, a "spatial familiarity", and MANY years of firing at them)... rather than any kind of "aiming" or "diamond" system.

Too many variables in equipment for this old country boy.

Dick <---knows he's not the only one who feels this way.

Cowboy Dennis · Jun 7, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
For having never played bank pool, I was always a pretty fair banker.
I know enough about bank pool, to know that most banks are shot with a pretty firm (if not often warp) speed, with usually some occasional afterthought as to safety, should you miss.

All that I have learned re; banking, I learned by shooting probably 80 to 90% of my banks at, or around, pocket speed. This seems to be common among all 1P specialists.

When I was still playing 9 ball, (all push-out in those days) I always felt confident, pushing out to a tough bank, and could execute most of them with whatever speed was called for.

It's been my observation that most 1P players have a completely different mindset, regarding how they approach a bank. I think most banks, (in 1P) correct speed becomes as much or more important, than making the ball.
Therefore I have never felt the need to learn "proper bank methods", as they quite often, may not even apply to one pocket.

Not all may agree, but for myself, I have always been comfortable with multi-rail, long rail, or side rail banks, shot at pocket speed.

While it never hurts to improve any aspect of your game, I guess I've learned to play, by feel and instinct, (and a LOT of pops at them.) rather than any kind of "aiming" or "diamond" system.
Too many variables in equipment for this old country boy.

Dick <---knows he's not the only one who feels this way.

SISSY ANSWER. SISSY ANSWER.

SJDinPHX · Jun 7, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
SISSY ANSWER. SISSY ANSWER.

SISSY REPLY, SISSY REPLY.

blackeee · Jun 8, 2009

NH Steve said:
Well,I would not be the best person to ask, for sure, but I do find that one thing that helps me on banks is to shorten up my bridge, because it is easier to maintain a tighter control on exactly where I contact the cue ball, and because english makes such a big difference in how a bank is going to react, in my opinion.

Okay, I guess I didn't address the aiming question. I would say the closer the object ball is to the rail, the more you would have to rely on fractional aiming, as opposed to aiming for a spot along the rail, unless your aiming target is an imaginary one, like in the "mirror system", or "spot on the wall" system. I do use those a little to get an initial feel for the shot.

I hit all my banks best if I take the time to clearly visualize the entry angle into the first cushion, for sure. Once I get a good feel for that entry angle, then I feel comfortable getting into a stance and just "feeling the shot" from there.

Not a champion by any means, I love the game of bank pool. 10 years ago I wouldn't play banks at all unless it was a cheap partner game just because there was no other kind of action. I bought all of Freddys' books and dvds a couple of years ago and started trying to learn the game. Well, what a revelation that information was! I have now become a decent bank player. My approach to the game as far as aiming goes is somewhat like Steves. If the OB is close to the rail I use a portion of the ball. Using a portion of the ball, you must factor in the angle the ball approacches the rail and get your speed and spin set in your mind before you pull the trigger. On straight backs where you can hit the fullness of the ball {OB not close to the rail} I aim at a spot on the rail and as Steve suggested, pay particular attention to making an accurate hit on the CB. Most "easy banks" are missed because of a mishit on the CB. I think a firm to hard speed is the best speed to play most bank shots and center ball whenever possible. If you play enough banks you kinda just " see" and "feel" the shots.Theres nothin better than the POW of a wide angle cross corner about ninety miles an hour hittin the back of the pocket!

fred bentivegna · Jun 8, 2009

Promise to reply

Promise to reply

No time. I'm off to the Urologist this morning. Gonna get a "Johnson" make-over. While feel and instinct are attractive, simple concepts, wouldnt it be nice to really know what you are doing?

the Beard

vapros · Jun 8, 2009

To Dennis and Dick

To Dennis and Dick

Go 'head on, get him! You ain't got to take that. I got yer back.

SJDinPHX · Jun 8, 2009

fred bentivegna said:
No time. I'm off to the Urologist this morning. Gonna get a "Johnson" make-over. While feel and instinct are attractive, simple concepts, wouldnt it be nice to really know what you are doing?

the Beard

Short answer, for me...NO !
Why would I want to confuse the issue of banking,.(in 1P) when it has worked, for me, all these years.
That, plus the fact that I don't think I ever even saw a bank pool game until I was in my 30's.

Its been quite a while since I was a "newbie", but I remember my first few years as hungering to learn all I could about anything pool related.

So I'm not saying that young, gifted player's (like Mike) and others, could not benefit from your teaching methods Fred, but I guess you know, when many of us older guys turned out, the radio was a fairly new invention.(let alone DVD tutorials)

You've often admitted yourself that you thought you'd take your hard earned knowledge to the grave. Hence, all us guy's learned, like you, whatever we learned by baptism under fire.

The information age changed all that, when you saw you might supplement your income by "giving it up", and I say...good for you.

Before father time (theres a real a--hole, huh) cut my skills in half, I would have taken on a lot of good bankers, (IF they had to shoot all banks at pocket speed) and felt I could hang with them, multi-rail or straight.

That might make a good game...Set up a fairly tough bank, and get 2 points for making the shot, and 1 point for whoever gets closest to the pocket...race to so many points. Just a thought.

I certainly don't mean this as a knock on your teaching methods, I'm just saying....If I were 18-20 years old again, and turned out in Kentucky, I would gobble up ALL your DVD's and books. But, that ain't gonna happen.
So I have to live with what I got. "Old dog, new trick" thingy.

Dick

PS Good luck with your "Johnson" procedure. (Makeover ???....Do you get to pick your size ?)

CaliRed · Jun 8, 2009

fred bentivegna said:
No time. I'm off to the Urologist this morning. Gonna get a "Johnson" make-over.
the Beard

This wouldn't have been inspired by Fast Lenny's post, would it?

Cowboy Dennis · Jun 8, 2009

vapros said:
Go 'head on, get him! You ain't got to take that. I got yer back.

vapros,

Freddy is correct about learning how to aim and shoot banks. If I was 18 yrs. old I would snatch up all of his books and DVD's, like Dick wrote. All of that great information wasn't around when I started playing. I learned by playing and watching better players.

There was one guy who would bring a different 'cousin' up to the room that I played at every week. All of his 'cousins' played banks very well and that was what we played. I think that except for John McCue I was the only player that gambled at banks in that room. You learn a lot from other players. Which shot to shoot when several are available, how to play safties and the hit to use on the banks that you do shoot.

Back then (late 70's early 80's), we played mostly with a 15 ball rack. A big difference from a nine ball rack. The table is much more cluttered.

All this talk about learning is making me want to order Freddy's books and DVD's. I think I will.

Dennis

SJDinPHX · Jun 8, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
vapros,

Freddy is correct about learning how to aim and shoot banks. If I was 18 yrs. old I would snatch up all of his books and DVD's, like Dick wrote. All of that great information wasn't around when I started playing. I learned by playing and watching better players.

There was one guy who would bring a different 'cousin' up to the room that I played at every week. All of his 'cousins' played banks very well and that was what we played. I think that except for John McCue I was the only player that gambled at banks in that room. You learn a lot from other players. Which shot to shoot when several are available, how to play safties and the hit to use on the banks that you do shoot.

Back then (late 70's early 80's), we played mostly with a 15 ball rack. A big difference from a nine ball rack. The table is much more cluttered.

All this talk about learning is making me want to order Freddy's books and DVD's. I think I will.

Dennis

Dennis, as soon as you learn how, please burn me 20 or 30 copies for resale, 1/2 price... I promise not to tell Freddy.

Dick <--- loves free stuff ! (JK)

PS... Freddy will probably be too busy playing with the ladies to notice...once he obtains an adequate "Johnson".

Cowboy Dennis · Jun 8, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
Dennis, as soon as you learn how, please burn me copie's. I promise not to tell Freddy.

".

Dick,

Now I know why Freddy is so defensive when you post. You are always horning in on his action.

I haven't learned how to burn a DVD yet. I tried for and hour and a half yesterday only to find out that Marilyns DVD was copy protected.

I'm actually gearing up right now for another attempt at it on some other DVD's that I have.

Dennis

SJDinPHX · Jun 8, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
Dick,

Now I know why Freddy is so defensive when you post. You are always horning in on his action.

I haven't learned how to burn a DVD yet. I tried for and hour and a half yesterday only to find out that Marilyns DVD was copy protected.

I'm actually gearing up right now for another attempt at it on some other DVD's that I have.

Dennis

Stay with it. I have a friend who can burn even copyrighted stuff. All you need is the right program, which everyone in China owns.

I will pass it along to you, for some Marilyn DVD's.

fred bentivegna · Jun 8, 2009

Marilyn DVDs

Marilyn DVDs

Marilyn DVDs and a reworked Johnson sounds like a good combo.

the Beard

vapros · Jun 8, 2009

Dennis, I have some of Freddy's DVDs and they are great stuff. However, I'm like Dick, in that most of my banking is at pocket speed, ala one-pocket.

Also, most of my pool has been played since 1982, and I was already fifty by that time. Yeah, I'm older than Dick.

I'm trying to recall whether I have ever seen banks played live, and I don't think I have, even tho I was on hand for a lot of the wild action in Baton Rouge in 1998. I'm sure it's a great game, but I probably will not spend much time practicing any non-1p shots. Maybe when I get a little older . . .

Fatboy · Jun 8, 2009

vapros said:
Yeah, I'm older than Dick.

i didnt know that was possible

sadly i feel older than everyone here, Artie is in better shape than me, on the square my back troubles have me crippled up so bad nowdays I feel like i'm 200 some days,

Bank shots aiming

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