Owen v. Varner shot puzzle

stljohnny

stljohnny

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St. Louis, MO
Well, the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this layout was this:

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdT3CEkv3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PIEX4QdGu3UYBF3UawK4UNaH4UVRb3aMNn3aGYr3aIdc3aMEU3bEMk3bDWj3bAlq3cHnN3cHNw3cHel2kIEX3kVPC3kOKm3kNEE3kUeE@[/CUETABLE]

Or something like that.

After scrolling through the responses, I see that no one else thought that was a good shot... which is why I need to watch/practice more. lol
 
One Pocket Ghost

One Pocket Ghost

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There's also this simple but very effective shot avaiable, that nobody's thought to mention...all of us One Pocket players quite often shoot variations of this shot >>>

- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdU3CEkv3DCIU4ECAF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAtG4JDOT3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PPFc4QdGu4eDOT4eQOq4eUfI2kPFc4kBRw@[/CUETABLE]
 
S

senor

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One Pocket Ghost said:
There's also this simple but very effective shot avaiable, that nobody's thought to mention...all of us One Pocket players quite often shoot variations of this shot >>>

- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdU3CEkv3DCIU4ECAF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAtG4JDOT3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PPFc4QdGu4eDOT4eQOq4eUfI2kPFc4kBRw@[/CUETABLE]
Click to expand...

A good shot indeed.
 
stljohnny

stljohnny

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I just watched the Owen v Varner match and wow! Gabe had Nick in a vice the entire time. I'm gonna have to watch that a few more times. :)

I watched the Owen v Frost match last week and thought that was pretty interesting as well.
 
M

mosconiac

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I like (& understand) the attractiveness of the 3-railer on the 1B, but it seems the 15B deserves more respect that it's getting. Leaving the CB in the vacinity of where Nick did leaves the possibility of banking the 15B & running out. If you run it forward, the cross-bank on the 6B becomes an issue.

No one can say the 15B doesn't bank because it WAS on the spot in the video...not near the rack as shown in the cuetable.

Here's the downside I see shooting the 3-railer...although this IS a cuetable runout...real life may be different. I remember Grady saying we shouldn't shoot a shot that we can lose with, but can't win with. :)

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATdT4BAdT3CEkv3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf3PaaG4QdGu3jCHf4jcGp3jbCl3kaaG3kELa4kSnf@4AVQC4BAdT3CFBv3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx4PTdg4QdGu3WFBv3WGHy3WKwo3cHnN3catf4kTdg3kCXm3kCoD@4AVQC4BAdT3CLFo3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HcIm3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx3PDND4QdGu3WLFo3WbCq3kDND3kKHa3kbWr3kDDR@4AVQC4BAdT3CbKt3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HcIm3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx3PDLP4QdGu3aMNn3acYm3kDLP3kJsf3kEWq4kBKj@[/CUETABLE]
 
androd

androd

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New Braunfels tx.
mosconiac said:
I like (& understand) the attractiveness of the 3-railer on the 1B, but it seems the 15B deserves more respect that it's getting. Leaving the CB in the vacinity of where Nick did leaves the possibility of banking the 15B & running out. If you run it forward, the cross-bank on the 6B becomes an issue.

No one can say the 15B doesn't bank because it WAS on the spot in the video...not near the rack as shown in the cuetable.

Here's the downside I see shooting the 3-railer...although this IS a cuetable runout...real life may be different. I remember Grady saying we shouldn't shoot a shot that we can lose with, but can't win with. :)

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATdT4BAdT3CEkv3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf3PaaG4QdGu3jCHf4jcGp3jbCl3kaaG3kELa4kSnf@4AVQC4BAdT3CFBv3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx4PTdg4QdGu3WFBv3WGHy3WKwo3cHnN3catf4kTdg3kCXm3kCoD@4AVQC4BAdT3CLFo3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HcIm3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx3PDND4QdGu3WLFo3WbCq3kDND3kKHa3kbWr3kDDR@4AVQC4BAdT3CbKt3DCIU4EBrF3FMNn3GEMk3HcIm3IAlG4JDGU3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3Ocpx3PDLP4QdGu3aMNn3acYm3kDLP3kJsf3kEWq4kBKj@[/CUETABLE]
Click to expand...

If it was on the spot you have to worry about the scratch or giving up the 1 ball.:)
 
androd

androd

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One Pocket Ghost said:
There's also this simple but very effective shot avaiable, that nobody's thought to mention...all of us One Pocket players quite often shoot variations of this shot >>>

- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdU3CEkv3DCIU4ECAF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAtG4JDOT3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PPFc4QdGu4eDOT4eQOq4eUfI2kPFc4kBRw@[/CUETABLE]
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, nobody out moves a Ghost.
Rod.
 
androd

androd

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Rod.....Please don't give me compliments - it makes me very nervous...:eek:

- Ghosty
Click to expand...

It wasn't a compliment it was an agreement. :p
PS, I ran 11 and out today I'm feeling frisky.;) They were all easy shots.:p
Rod.
 
Skin

Skin

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One Pocket Ghost said:
There's also this simple but very effective shot avaiable, that nobody's thought to mention...all of us One Pocket players quite often shoot variations of this shot >>>

- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdU3CEkv3DCIU4ECAF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAtG4JDOT3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PPFc4QdGu4eDOT4eQOq4eUfI2kPFc4kBRw@[/CUETABLE]
Click to expand...

Ghost, I like that category of shot and will play it when the right situation arises. Thanks for posting it.

Let me ask this, though. Is that really a shot that is playing the score in this situation, down 4-0 with bih and him not really having his pocket developed? Not trying to pick an argument at all, but dog gone double gosh :) , it just seems to me like this is a time that cries out for something potentially more rewarding to turn the game around. The way the leave looks, it won't be that hard for him to get out of it. Whaddaya think?

Skin
 
KindlyOleUncleDave

KindlyOleUncleDave

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And

And

One Pocket Ghost said:
There's also this simple but very effective shot avaiable, that nobody's thought to mention...all of us One Pocket players quite often shoot variations of this shot >>>

- Ghost


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYBF4BAdU3CEkv3DCIU4ECAF3FMNn3GEMk3HHnN3IAtG4JDOT3KLBM3LOLM3MRNL3NUXL3OCHf2PPFc4QdGu4eDOT4eQOq4eUfI2kPFc4kBRw@[/CUETABLE]
Click to expand...

I hate to be a nit there boy genius, but where do the 5,4,2,9, and 7 wind up? You DO have the cueball taking up 1/2 the space occupied by the 5 so I ASSUME some balls moved.
 
One Pocket Ghost

One Pocket Ghost

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Skin said:
Ghost, I like that category of shot and will play it when the right situation arises. Thanks for posting it.

Let me ask this, though. Is that really a shot that is playing the score in this situation, down 4-0 with bih and him not really having his pocket developed? Not trying to pick an argument at all, but dog gone double gosh :) , it just seems to me like this is a time that cries out for something potentially more rewarding to turn the game around. The way the leave looks, it won't be that hard for him to get out of it. Whaddaya think?

Skin
Click to expand...


Skin....No problem discussing this...

If there was a sure thing shot here to, as you say, "turn the game around" then ok - but there isn't....that said, this shot is strong here, better really then the 3-railer, because with this shot there's no doubt about getting the ball in front of your pocket, and there's no doubt about getting a lockdown snooker on him thus trapping him.

- Ghost

PS, You said > "it won't be that hard for him to get out of it"....I don't see it that way - please tell me or wei-out his easy shot to get out of it.
 
One Pocket Ghost

One Pocket Ghost

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KindlyOleUncleDave said:
I hate to be a nit there boy genius, but where do the 5,4,2,9, and 7 wind up? You DO have the cueball taking up 1/2 the space occupied by the 5 so I ASSUME some balls moved.
Click to expand...


The shot is shot very soft, those balls won't do more than wiggle a little, causing no problem - and the cueball will end up nicely frozen on the 5 and 9balls...:)

- boy genius
 
Skin

Skin

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Skin....No problem discussing this...

If there was a sure thing shot here to, as you say, "turn the game around" then ok - but there isn't....that said, this shot is strong here, better really then the 3-railer, because with this shot there's no doubt about getting the ball in front of your pocket, and there's no doubt about getting a lockdown snooker on him thus trapping him.

- Ghost

PS, You said > "it won't be that hard for him to get out of it"....I don't see it that way - please tell me or wei-out his easy shot to get out of it.
Click to expand...

Ghost, he just shoots the 15 over to his long rail and leaves you right back where he started and has another developed ball on his side and has opened up the 3-8 combo. The problem with your leave is that you left him able to hit low on the cb. This is the worst thing you can do when stacking a guy, imo, just behind leaving him a good very thin off a ball. Stacking is a bitch if you don't get the leave perfect.

Skin
 
NH Steve

NH Steve

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If you were ahead in the count instead...

If you were ahead in the count instead...

I am a late arrival here, and don't have a different shot to add -- I think you guys did just fine. The only thing I wanted to add was that if the score was reversed and you were behind instead, I would say the 6-ball ought to go away instead of the 3-rail shot on the 1-ball. The reason being, you could knock away the 6 and leave the cue ball under the stack -- and your opponent would be stuck knocking balls up table for you. If you did that now (with you behind) pretty soon all the balls would be up table and your chances for a swift comeback dashed...
 
One Pocket Ghost

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Skin said:
Ghost, he just shoots the 15 over to his long rail and leaves you right back where he started and has another developed ball on his side and has opened up the 3-8 combo. The problem with your leave is that you left him able to hit low on the cb. This is the worst thing you can do when stacking a guy, imo, just behind leaving him a good very thin off a ball. Stacking is a bitch if you don't get the leave perfect.

Skin
Click to expand...


Can't understand how you think that - he's ending up froze on top of the 5 - how's he going to hit the cueball low, to address the 15?......and also, besides that, the edge of the 9 ball might end up against the cueball, thus blocking a full hit on the 15.

- Ghost
 
NH Steve

NH Steve

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NH Steve said:
I am a late arrival here, and don't have a different shot to add -- I think you guys did just fine. The only thing I wanted to add was that if the score was reversed and you were behind instead, I would say the 6-ball ought to go away instead of the 3-rail shot on the 1-ball. The reason being, you could knock away the 6 and leave the cue ball under the stack -- and your opponent would be stuck knocking balls up table for you. If you did that now (with you behind) pretty soon all the balls would be up table and your chances for a swift comeback dashed...
Click to expand...
Likewise, one of the good things about the Ghost's roll-up-on-the-5-ball shot is that it leaves the cue ball on top of the balls, so whatever your opponent does is liable to loosen up more balls AND keep those balls down table acting as a threat for a while.... which might give you a chance to jumpstart back into the game. Of course, your opponent could wiggle out and end up trapping you, but... I think your chances at that kind of more open down-table game would be a lot better than if the game developed into an up-table drag out game.
 
Skin

Skin

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Can't understand how you think that - he's ending up froze on top of the 5 - how's he going to hit the cueball low, to address the 15?......and also, besides that, the edge of the 9 ball might end up against the cueball, thus blocking a full hit on the 15.

- Ghost
Click to expand...

Ghost, if he is frozen on the top of the 5, he has nearly the entire left side of the cb from the head rail view to work with. Nothing is hindering him. There is no ball there to keep him from hitting low and the 15 is sweet to hit.

Maybe we aren't reading the WEI layout the same way? But I still stand by my point: when stacking a guy the worst is to leave him able to shoot something with a low cb and next is leaving a good thin angle on a ball. He can turn around a "trap" into another trap quickly that way and what you thought was brilliant can turn into a nightmare. JUst MHO is all.

You have to make him either shoot forward or kick from a stack leave.

Skin
 
Last edited:
One Pocket Ghost

One Pocket Ghost

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Skin said:
Ghost, if he is frozen on the top of the 5, he has nearly the entire left side of the cb from the head rail view to work with. Nothing is hindering him. There is no ball there to keep him from hitting low and the 15 is sweet to hit.

Maybe we aren't reading the WEI layout the same way?

Skin
Click to expand...



:rolleyes: >>>


One Pocket Ghost said:
Can't understand how you think that - he's ending up froze on top of the 5 - how's he going to hit the cueball low, to address the 15?......and also, besides that, the edge of the 9 ball might end up against the cueball, thus blocking a full hit on the 15.

- Ghost
Click to expand...
 
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