Rules Question

So, here I am watching my opponent run out and and while I knew he had made his money ball, he didn't. He proceeds to miss a tough cut and scratches. He argued he was already out, I argued that he has to spot two and it's my shot. I don't feel I am responsible for my opponent not knowing the score (especially when gambling) and I feel like the innning isn't over til he has stopped shooting.ANy help would be appreciated...

If you want to win that way, or even have a shot at winning that way, have at it.

Troy

i'll_bust_you said:

So, here I am watching my opponent run out and and while I knew he had made his money ball, he didn't. He proceeds to miss a tough cut and scratches. He argued he was already out, I argued that he has to spot two and it's my shot. I don't feel I am responsible for my opponent not knowing the score (especially when gambling) and I feel like the innning isn't over til he has stopped shooting.ANy help would be appreciated...

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OR - How about this one ?

OR - How about this one ?

It is your opponent’s shot and he just returns from the bathroom.
He shoots a ball in your pocket and proceeds to run another 4 balls in your hole. He finally misses and you say -
"Thanks" but that is my hole and now it is my shot.

What say you knowledgeable one-pocket players?
What would the official AND CORRECT ruling be from the tournament director of a major tournament if this happened?

TY & GL

OldHasBeen said:

It is your opponent’s shot and he just returns from the bathroom.
He shoots a ball in your pocket and proceeds to run another 4 balls in your hole. He finally misses and you say -
"Thanks" but that is my hole and now it is my shot.

What say you knowledgeable one-pocket players?
What would the official AND CORRECT ruling be from the tournament director of a major tournament if this happened?

TY & GL

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2 consecutive made balls without the opponent saying "Hey, that's my hole" and the pocket becomes yours.

i'll_bust_you said:

So, here I am watching my opponent run out and and while I knew he had made his money ball, he didn't. He proceeds to miss a tough cut and scratches. He argued he was already out, I argued that he has to spot two and it's my shot. I don't feel I am responsible for my opponent not knowing the score (especially when gambling) and I feel like the innning isn't over til he has stopped shooting.ANy help would be appreciated...

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Games over when he made 8, silly

OldHasBeen said:

It is your opponentÍs shot and he just returns from the bathroom.
He shoots a ball in your pocket and proceeds to run another 4 balls in your hole. He finally misses and you say -
"Thanks" but that is my hole and now it is my shot.

What say you knowledgeable one-pocket players?
What would the official AND CORRECT ruling be from the tournament director of a major tournament if this happened?

TY & GL

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The first ball made in the incorrect pocket would count for that pocket's "owner". The next 4 balls would be spotted. Inning is over. No switch of pockets occurs.

Steve ???

Steve ???

OldHasBeen said:

It is your opponent’s shot and he just returns from the bathroom.
He shoots a ball in your pocket and proceeds to run another 4 balls in your hole. He finally misses and you say -
"Thanks" but that is my hole and now it is my shot.

What say you knowledgeable one-pocket players?
What would the official AND CORRECT ruling be from the tournament director of a major tournament if this happened?

TY & GL

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STEVE - I WOULD LIKE YOUR CALL ON THIS AND WOULD APPRICIATE ANY INPUT FROM ANY ACCEPTABLE AUTHORITIES YOU MAY KNOW OF.
THANKS, TOM

OldHasBeen said:

STEVE - I WOULD LIKE YOUR CALL ON THIS AND WOULD APPRICIATE ANY INPUT FROM ANY ACCEPTABLE AUTHORITIES YOU MAY KNOW OF.
THANKS, TOM

Click to expand...

According to the official rules which we voted on here at OnePocket.org, that situation is addressed as follows:

11. Keeping track of which pocket is whose

11.1 It is each player’s responsibility to keep track of which pocket is theirs; opponents are under no obligation – other than good sportsmanship -- to correct such an error prior to an opponent’s shot. A ball legally pocketed in the wrong pocket counts for the player who legitimately has that pocket, regardless of who shot the ball. However, a ball shot into the wrong pocket does not entitle the shooter to continue their inning, unless on the same stroke they legitimately score into their own pocket as well.

11.2 In the event that a player shooting into the wrong pocket is permitted to continue the same inning at the table (beyond what is entitled by legally pocketing a ball in their own pocket) by their opponent’s or the referee’s failure to notify them of their error, such failure of notification does not legitimize any additional balls pocketed in that inning, whether pocketed in the shooter’s pocket or their opponent’s pocket. Thus the first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the shooter’s opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any subsequently pocketed balls in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls, because it is the referee’s or opponent’s responsibility to notify the shooter before they erroneously continue their inning.


Our complete rules can be found here:
Official One Pocket Rules

Thank You Steve!

Thank You Steve!

NH Steve said:

According to the official rules which we voted on here at OnePocket.org, that situation is addressed as follows:

11. Keeping track of which pocket is whose

11.1 It is each player’s responsibility to keep track of which pocket is theirs; opponents are under no obligation – other than good sportsmanship -- to correct such an error prior to an opponent’s shot. A ball legally pocketed in the wrong pocket counts for the player who legitimately has that pocket, regardless of who shot the ball. However, a ball shot into the wrong pocket does not entitle the shooter to continue their inning, unless on the same stroke they legitimately score into their own pocket as well.

11.2 In the event that a player shooting into the wrong pocket is permitted to continue the same inning at the table (beyond what is entitled by legally pocketing a ball in their own pocket) by their opponent’s or the referee’s failure to notify them of their error, such failure of notification does not legitimize any additional balls pocketed in that inning, whether pocketed in the shooter’s pocket or their opponent’s pocket. Thus the first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the shooter’s opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any subsequently pocketed balls in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls, because it is the referee’s or opponent’s responsibility to notify the shooter before they erroneously continue their inning.


Our complete rules can be found here:
Official One Pocket Rules[/QUOTE

Steve - This scenario happened at the last DCC in tournament play. They got a ruling and it was that the player getting all the balls shot into his pocket, got to keep them. This is NO big deal and I'm certainly not complaining, as it didn't involve me - BUT - I just knew it didn't make any sense. If a player intentionally shoots a hanging ball into the opponent’s pocket (which often happens), his inning is over. PERIOD - If allowed to continue shooting, the additional balls would have to be spotted.
TY & GL

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Steve - I got another "What If" !

Steve - I got another "What If" !

Steve -
While shooting a One Pocket shot in which the cue ball is fairly close to the rack, a player moves 3 or 4 balls sightly as he is removes his bridge hand & cue. There was NO cue ball foul nor would there have been even if the balls wouldn't have been moved.
This is a private game for Ca$h - Not a tourney game.

WHAT HAPPENS ???

TY & GL

OldHasBeen said:

Steve - This scenario happened at the last DCC in tournament play. They got a ruling and it was that the player getting all the balls shot into his pocket, got to keep them. This is NO big deal and I'm certainly not complaining, as it didn't involve me - BUT - I just knew it didn't make any sense. If a player intentionally shoots a hanging ball into the opponent’s pocket (which often happens), his inning is over. PERIOD - If allowed to continue shooting, the additional balls would have to be spotted.
TY & GL

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I'm surprised at that because one of the officials I consulted with for the rules as written here was Scott Smith, the tourney director at the DCC!

I did personally witness a similar controversy between Buddy Hall and up-and-comer Sylver Ochoa in a One Pocket match at the DCC. As you know, the Diamond tables are gully style, so any ball shot into any pocket simply collects into the common tray at the end of the table. Apparently Sylver forgot to move a ball he made (witnesses agreed with his claim of making the ball, by the way). A shot or so later, Buddy made a ball or more, and after his inning was over, he moved all the balls from the common tray into his own scoring rack. An inning or so later, Sylver noticed the discrepancy in score and called it to Buddy's attention, even identifying the ball number of the ball in question, and describing the shot. Buddy wouldn't budge. Dave Vandenberghe (official from Diamond) and Scott Smith came over and after listening to everyone, and consulting with each other, they let Buddy keep the ball. Their rational was that too much time had elapsed to justify going back and making the switch -- sort of a "possession is nine-tenth's of the law" approach.




In case you are interested, I found this simple explanation of possession is nine-tenth's of the law

OldHasBeen said:

Steve -
While shooting a One Pocket shot in which the cue ball is fairly close to the rack, a player moves 3 or 4 balls sightly as he is removes his bridge hand & cue. There was NO cue ball foul nor would there have been even if the balls wouldn't have been moved.
This is a private game for Ca$h - Not a tourney game.

WHAT HAPPENS ???

TY & GL

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I'd say that would be covered in the General Rules (all games) controlled by the BCA and World Pool-Billiards

BCA website: said:

1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

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In otherwords, they just get put back as best they can -- no advantage to go to the offending player -- and keep shooting.

Steve - I'll bet your asking yourself - Why doesen't this FAT-OHB look at the rules.

Steve - I'll bet your asking yourself - Why doesen't this FAT-OHB look at the rules.

NH Steve said:

I'd say that would be covered in the General Rules (all games) controlled by the BCA and World Pool-Billiards

In otherwords, they just get put back as best they can -- no advantage to go to the offending player -- and keep shooting.

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Steve - I have always played by gambling rules unless it was set forth (by the house) differently - OR - In a tournament w/ a set of rules & or a ref.

This scenario came up recently but it involved the House Man.
He & his opponent didn't know what to do or what the correct ruling should be.
No one said a word and then to my amazement, the House Man asked a very novice player what he thought.
Now keep in mind that there were at least 2 other better One Pocket players present and neither ventured an opinion.
This novice player says, "You don't want to know"!
When asked to expound - He says - As long as 3 or more balls are moved - IT IS - "LOSS OF GAME"!

I couldn't believe it and almost laughed out loud, but this guy was serious.

I had a very small wager on the outcome and sure didn't want to interfere. I also was confident of the outcome in spite of this ridicules ruling.

Now, I don't honestly think this novice player was trying to be partial OR untruthful. I think he had heard it from some tournament OR maybe one of many governing pool associations out there. He isn't the type of fellow to try something underhanded.

WHAT I REALLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND - IS - WHY THE OFFENDING PLAYER DIDN'T ASK THE OPINIONS OF OTHER PLAYERS PRESENT.
As my opinion would have been correct according to you.

I really think there should be ONE set of rules (followed by all) for the games sake AND it should be readily available on-line.

DUHHH - MAYBE THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVEY TO ME!

TY & GL

NH Steve said:

In case you are interested, I found this simple explanation of possession is nine-tenth's of the law

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By gosh, a guy never knows what he'll learn on this site! Where else can you get this kind of information!! Interesting, Steve...

Doc

House Rules?????

House Rules?????

My best recollection was you had to stop the guy shooting into your pocket at 7 balls and then you shot in the game ball.

It was always the responsibility of the player to spot up any balls his/her opponent owed. If a player owed two and in his next inning he made 3 balls,if the opponent did not spot the two owed balls, as soon as the incoming player took a shot the balls were no longer owed.

WHY ?

To prevent playing position or getting out of line and saying hey you owe one and giving you a great position to be in.

In reality I never in 60 years of play saw anyone allow their opponent to continue shooting into the wrong pocket. I don't mean to say it did not happen but I never saw it.

1. It would certainly stop any action that night.

2. Why would you want to create a fiasco like that with someone you agreed to play with.

3. There was even honor among theives.

4. What kind of pool story would that make ? Yeah I beat this guy out of $2oo. The idiot shot 4 balls into my pocket for me. In a row!!!!!!


Titanic Jerry

This reminds me, on of FATS stroies

This reminds me, on of FATS stroies

Suposly they where playing one pocket in a tournament in FL and this guy ran three balls in Fats pocket and held bad shape on the last ball and left him a table long cut and fats said "hold it son" You dont shoot good enough to make that ball ill take over from here.. =)

I feel....

I feel....

i'll_bust_you said:

So, here I am watching my opponent run out and and while I knew he had made his money ball, he didn't. He proceeds to miss a tough cut and scratches. He argued he was already out, I argued that he has to spot two and it's my shot. I don't feel I am responsible for my opponent not knowing the score (especially when gambling) and I feel like the innning isn't over til he has stopped shooting.ANy help would be appreciated...

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Thats a pretty big snooze if ya ask me. If I need 1-2 balls I damn sure know it, but ethics/morals/common sense tells me the man won the game. I thought about it after we discussed it, trying to move onna thing like that will bring bad karma in return.