Did Mosconi Play One Pocket?

I'm sure he played the game from time to time but I was wondering if anyone knows of him matching up with any of the legends of the game? Willie was a full generation ahead of me in age as well as speed.

I don't know if he ever really took up the game, but I've heard a story about Willie beating Fats badly enough for Fats to call his horse for more money. When asked how he was doing giving Willie "lessons" on One-Pocket, Fats reportedly said "Willie is slowly learning the game, but he keeps running 8 and out on me."

Troy

hemicudas said:

I'm sure he played the game from time to time but I was wondering if anyone knows of him matching up with any of the legends of the game? Willie was a full generation ahead of me in age as well as speed.

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Oakland Don Decoy

Oakland Don Decoy

Troy said:

I don't know if he ever really took up the game, but I've heard a story about Willie beating Fats badly enough for Fats to call his horse for more money. When asked how he was doing giving Willie "lessons" on One-Pocket, Fats reportedly said "Willie is slowly learning the game, but he keeps running 8 and out on me."

Troy

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In the late 40's, Oakland Don Decoy was rated a the #1 One-Pocket player at this particular time. The crew with Don harassed Mosconi to play One-Pocket ( I think Al Miller from Racine Wi was one of the crewmembers). This was in Philly. Willie finally relented, played, and BarBq'd Decoy. They said he just ran 8 and out every game.
The Beard

fred bentivegna said:

In the late 40's, Oakland Don Decoy was rated a the #1 One-Pocket player at this particular time. The crew with Don harassed Mosconi to play One-Pocket ( I think Al Miller from Racine Wi was one of the crewmembers). This was in Philly. Willie finally relented, played, and BarBq'd Decoy. They said he just ran 8 and out every game.
The Beard

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No way. Mosconi was under contract to Brunswick at the age of 18 and until his death. His contract stated that Mosconi was never to engage in any conest for money. He was to give exhibitions twice daily, and to be paid the sum of $300 per day. Mosconi was as tight as a tick with his money. He sure was not going to risk $300 per day from the age of 18 until he died. Mosconi discussed this many times. He was always upset that he was not allowed to gamble for any amount at all, but he knew that he would lose that cash cow Brunswick paid him every day of his life.

Mosconii never played any game other than Straight pool in public, BUT, in a private setting, with people he trusted, that little devil was hell on wheels no matter what game he played. You could not win any type of game from him.

You know, Brunswick also sponsored Mosconi, and Greenleaf, twice, on a year long tour around the world playing straight pool. Both times, at the end of each tour, Greenleaf was the winner. There was no love lost between these two players. Greenleaf with his huge sidestroke, and his head way above the cue, and Mosconii with his short, compact stroke almost touching his chin. Quite a physical contrast between the two. One short, the other tall. They both employed the same aiming system, but Ralph had the better position play. I believe that was the main reason Ralph was the winner of the two tours.

Hal





J. Dolan is writing a book on Ralph. The book should be out pretty soon. Dolan got all the background

ay only Straight
pool in his exhibitions. Brunswick also

Want a Mosconi trophy? Only problem is the name on it is spelled Masconi

http://www.goldbergauctions.com/cgi-bin/viewlot.pl?site=1&sale=30&lot=1586

$300

$300

halhoule said:

No way. Mosconi was under contract to Brunswick at the age of 18 and until his death. His contract stated that Mosconi was never to engage in any conest for money. He was to give exhibitions twice daily, and to be paid the sum of $300 per day. Mosconi was as tight as a tick with his money. He sure was not going to risk $300 per day from the age of 18 until he died. Mosconi discussed this many times. He was always upset that he was not allowed to gamble for any amount at all, but he knew that he would lose that cash cow Brunswick paid him every day of his life.

Mosconii never played any game other than Straight pool in public, BUT, in a private setting, with people he trusted, that little devil was hell on wheels no matter what game he played. You could not win any type of game from him.

You know, Brunswick also sponsored Mosconi, and Greenleaf, twice, on a year long tour around the world playing straight pool. Both times, at the end of each tour, Greenleaf was the winner. There was no love lost between these two players. Greenleaf with his huge sidestroke, and his head way above the cue, and Mosconii with his short, compact stroke almost touching his chin. Quite a physical contrast between the two. One short, the other tall. They both employed the same aiming system, but Ralph had the better position play. I believe that was the main reason Ralph was the winner of the two tours.

Hal





J. Dolan is writing a book on Ralph. The book should be out pretty soon. Dolan got all the background

ay only Straight
pool in his exhibitions. Brunswick also

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No way am I believing that Willie Mosconi was being paid $300 a day by Brunswick from 18y/o until his death. That would be $9000 a month. Fatty and Willie were not playing straight pool on Wide World of sports and I'm sure he was getting paid by the network!

No Barbecueing

No Barbecueing

Freddy has the Mosconi-Duquoy (sp?) story only partly right. The late Ray Dooley, who used to write a sort of advice column for Billiards Digest, had part of the bet on that match (actually, he had $20 of the $100, which was a damn good bet back then). They played 3 out of 5, and Mosconi won the hill game. Nobody barbecued anybody. GF

halhoule said:

No way. Mosconi was under contract to Brunswick at the age of 18 and until his death. His contract stated that Mosconi was never to engage in any conest for money. He was to give exhibitions twice daily, and to be paid the sum of $300 per day. Mosconi was as tight as a tick with his money. He sure was not going to risk $300 per day from the age of 18 until he died.

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Good to see you posting here, Hal! It's hard for me to imagine though that Mosconi was paid $300/day-- certainly for life. He was born in 1913, so he would have been 18 in 1931. $300/day was probably more than most movie stars were making in that era: a small fortune! But at least the "no gambling" clause in his contract explains why he never wagered.

Doc

Clem vs Willie Mosconi

Clem vs Willie Mosconi

hemicudas said:

I'm sure he played the game from time to time but I was wondering if anyone knows of him matching up with any of the legends of the game? Willie was a full generation ahead of me in age as well as speed.

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Herman Rambow told me that "Clem" Metz matched up with Mosconi in the old Bensingers on Randolph Street. Clem had been crowing about how badly he would defeat Willie if he ever dared cross cues with him.

Mosconi was doing exhibitions in Bensigners at the time and naturally somebody relayed Clem's challenge to the Champion within minutes. Apparently something Clem said got under Willie's skin and a game was arranged.

They warmed up with a 9-ball race to 10 which Mosconi won by a mile. Runout, runout, runout, runout, runout, runout, runout, ..........

Then they got to the serious play with some friendly 1-pocket for a nominal amount ($10 or $20 a game).

Clem had Mosconi in trouble for a while until Mosconi made a brutally difficult bank and ran the game out. The bank Rambow showed me is so difficult that only a master banker could make it. It involves beating a kiss by BOUNCING the cue ball off the nose of the cushion right over the returning object ball. Unless the bounce is perfect a spectator could be beaned by the hurtling cue ball.

From there on Clem didn't win another 1-pocket game.

That's the story Rambow told me.

Incidentally, I personally saw Clem decimate a young Ronnie Allen with a 7-ball spot in 9-ball and 9 to 7 at one pocket. Clem beat Allen so bad that he played him left-handed and gave Allen the 8 in 9-ball. To me Clem seemed to play the same either handed. Clem's form was excellent and he rarely missed.

Nobody in Johnston City was in any hurry to play Clem after they saw what he did to Ronnie Allen and a few other foolhardy souls in the practice room. In that era Clem was definitely one of the top ranked players. Widely feared.

Rambow who evidently witnessed Clem's encounter with Mosconi was very impressed with Mosconi's shooting and this was the guy who made cues for Ralph Greenleaf and every other US pool and billiard champion from 1905 until around 1960. All of these great players put on private exhibitions for Rambow in his shop on South Wabash where he had table set up so they could test their cues, shafts etc before going on tour. (Rambow, who was Brunswick's Master Cue Maker, started working before there were child labor laws!!!!)

I've heard of Mosconi playing for money a few other times, but never for more than peanuts. There are duffers who'll bet more in one session than Willie wagered in his entire career.

It's obvious that these games were ego battles in Mosconi's mind where he proved his superiority. Not much money changed hands, but permanent bragging rights were riding on the outcome and Willie rarely lost.
Bibleman

How much would this Herman Rambow be worth?

How much would this Herman Rambow be worth?

A good friend of mine has "Fatty's" Rambow that was given to a great friend of Fatty's when he started playing with a cue that he was endorsing instead. This was the cue he played & hustled with daily BEFORE The Movie.
Just curious - What could it be worth?

TY & GL

Clem vs. Junior

Clem vs. Junior

BIBLEMAN said:

Incidentally, I personally saw Clem decimate a young Ronnie Allen with a 7-ball spot in 9-ball and 9 to 7 at one pocket. Clem beat Allen so bad that he played him left-handed and gave Allen the 8 in 9-ball. To me Clem seemed to play the same either handed. Clem's form was excellent and he rarely missed.

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Bibleman, what year would that have been where Clem toasted RA? Could that have been in the late 50's? I imagine Allen was pretty young then. BTW, in what part of the country do you live?

Thanks,

Doc

We're getting a little silly here, guys. No player, no matter his credentials at other games, could defeat a top One pocket player playing even one hole, if he had never played the game.
My friend Jimmy Fusco helped Mosconi learn some One Pocket for his impending match against the hated Fatty but that was a short exibition match and Fatty was never a really top One Pocket player anyway. He was good but not great.

So Grady, do you think that the story in "Winning One Pocket" about Mosconi playing Fats high-stakes One Pocket in the early 50s in Philly is a fabrication?

Also, I read one time in a Pool & Billiard Magazine interview with Frank "Bananas" Rodriguez (a road partner of Don Decoy and good player himself) that he thought that in the late '40s Fats was one of the top five one pocket players in the country along with Rags Fitzpatrick, Don Decoy, Marcel Camp, and Hayden Lingo.

I've read a lot of quotes from well-regarded players that go both ways on whether Fats was a great player. Jersey Red is another player that is quoted in "Winning One Pocket" as saying that Fats was a top player in the 40s, while Danny DiLiberto for example thinks Fats was just full of hot air.

Fatty could never beat Hayden Lingo. I was lucky enough to see Hayden play a few times before he died. He didn't like Fatty and scoffed at the notion of losing to him. But I didn't post to knock Fatty's game. I just get tired of people saying that Mosconi could beat great One Pocket players.
When Jimmy Fusco helped Willie learn the game a little he didn't even know that it was sometimes helpful to put english on an object ball and his banking was atrocious.
Let's take some of today's players and make a comparison. Do you think Soquet, Duell, Hohman and the like would stand a chance against, Joyner, Frost or Daulton playing even One Pocket? Of course not.
While we're talking, I offered to play Clem even but I didn't want to play at Jimmy's in Mobile and he wouldn't play in a neutral place. As soon as it got to be the 60's nobody beat Ronnie and I saw quite a few try.

Grady said:

Fatty could never beat Hayden Lingo. I was lucky enough to see Hayden play a few times before he died. He didn't like Fatty and scoffed at the notion of losing to him. But I didn't post to knock Fatty's game. I just get tired of people saying that Mosconi could beat great One Pocket players.
When Jimmy Fusco helped Willie learn the game a little he didn't even know that it was sometimes helpful to put english on an object ball and his banking was atrocious.
Let's take some of today's players and make a comparison. Do you think Soquet, Duell, Hohman and the like would stand a chance against, Joyner, Frost or Daulton playing even One Pocket? Of course not.
While we're talking, I offered to play Clem even but I didn't want to play at Jimmy's in Mobile and he wouldn't play in a neutral place. As soon as it got to be the 60's nobody beat Ronnie and I saw quite a few try.

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Didn't you mean, Cleo, in Mobile Grady?

Sorry and yes I meant Cleo and what a mistake. While Cleo was a good solid player he wasn't in Clem's league. I also saw Clem play and I left him alone as it was some of the finest One Pocket I had ever seen and I wasn't as knowledgeable or capable as I later became.
Thanks for the correction.

Grady said:

Let's take some of today's players and make a comparison. Do you think Soquet, Duell, Hohman and the like would stand a chance against, Joyner, Frost or Daulton playing even One Pocket? Of course not.

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I think that Corey Duel has really learned the game over the past few years, and I wouldn't expect that Joyner, Frost, or Daulton would like it very much giving Corey weight. While they may be more seasoned than Corey and would probably come out ahead over the long run playing even, I can see any of them losing to Corey playing even on any given day.

Joyner, Frost and Parica are all hoping you will stake Corey. I think Corey gets his ass handed to him large dollar ahead sessions with those three, particularly Joyner.

loveshiscue said:

Joyner, Frost and Parica are all hoping you will stake Corey. I think Corey gets his ass handed to him large dollar ahead sessions with those three, particularly Joyner.

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Corey is no stranger to betting high, a perfect example being his 4-ahead set for $4K against Cliff Joyner at DCC in January getting 10-6 while playing one-handed (which he won).

Here are Corey's finishes in the DCC One Pocket division over the past 5 years:

2001: 3rd
2002: 9th
2003: 7th
2004: 45th
2005: 2nd

While tournament finishes are certainly not the only measure of one's skill, many of these finishes were higher than all four "superior" players who have been mentioned (Parica, Joyner, Daulton, and Frost). He certainly can move with the very best, and at this time he is arguably the straightest shooter among the four mentioned above. While I am still NOT claiming that he is the best one pocket player, I certainly like his chances against any of them getting weight.