Rafael Martinez creativity

lll said:

thisone is alittle barnum and bailey for me. no disrespect

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I think that shot deserves some disrespect - I meant it as a joke .

pj
chgo

NH Steve said:

This was something that came up in the Rafael/Ochoa match -- Rafael's shot and he has pocket A. He could not see the 7-ball directly.
Thank you calired for technical help

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10 into the 8, 8 into the 3 and make the 12. Whitey on short cushion for shape.

NH Steve said:

This was something that came up in the Rafael/Ochoa match -- Rafael's shot and he has pocket A. He could not see the 7-ball directly.
Thank you calired for technical help

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Hi Steve,

I watched this match also. I believe it was the Martinez-Frost game (for 3rd place) to get back to the final from the 1 loss side.

I had to replay the shot a few times because Rafael hits it at warp speed and you cannot tell what really happened without seeing it a couple of times.

Without giving too much away...(and hopefully not hijacking the thread )...... Rafael plays a billiard to take out the 7 ball while "lucking in" a combo-bank-carom: Interestingly....he does carom the 7 ball with the cueball, double kisses it and leaves the 7 ball over Scott's hole. Can you guess the shot with that clue?

Funny part is......just like Rafael.....he acted like he played it. Scott was in shock.

Thanks.

Bernie Pettipiece.

....as for shot possibilities that haven't been shown yet...here's one >>>


- Ghost

PS, I'm thinking that Dennis's shot is the shot that Rafael most likely shot - it's his kind of aggressive billiard power-shot...I would consider it myself here, and I know that Rafael is a 3c player too.


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i can see where someone might shoot the ten into the eight and knock out the seven with the cue ball but that is getting too much to do without selling out.
the simple shot is what john said and that is basically to use the 12 or 14 and hit it into the 7 and knock away the 7 and leave the cue ball up around the 2nd diamond to the side pocket on his rail using the 12 or 14 whichever is best.. smart players win but great shooters are impossible to beat.

Cowboy Dennis said:

A man that can only make one ball in his pocket from there should not even be playing one-pocket .
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Dennis, your shot is close enough. Who knows, it may have been just what Rafael envisioned. As it happened, the 8-ball banked into the edge of the twelve ball and right into the pocket. As someone else said, Rafael caromed into the 7 ball as planned, but got a slight double kiss so it didn't go very far -- he was lucky the 8-ball dropped because he would have sold out.

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NH Steve said:

Dennis, your shot is close enough. Who knows, it may have been just what Rafael envisioned. As it happened, the 8-ball banked into the edge of the twelve ball and right into the pocket. As someone else said, Rafael caromed into the 7 ball as planned, but got a slight double kiss so it didn't go very far -- he was lucky the 8-ball dropped because he would have sold out.

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kudos to dennis, i hope one day i can even see that that shot is a possibility

NH Steve said:

Dennis, your shot is close enough. Who knows, it may have been just what Rafael envisioned. As it happened, the 8-ball banked into the edge of the twelve ball and right into the pocket. As someone else said, Rafael caromed into the 7 ball as planned, but got a slight double kiss so it didn't go very far -- he was lucky the 8-ball dropped because he would have sold out.

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Just a thought. What other options did he have? Only a carom takeout off the 3 which, while it may take out the 7, does nothing to enhance his position. The combination and carom however at least moves the 8 into and hopefully clogging banking lanes minimizing the opponii's options should the 7 ball removal go awry. And if he comes too far up-table with the 3-7 carom the 8 looms large and the 13 even larger ... could turn the rack totally around and make Raphael the goat ... I can assure you he does not relish that role.

As for jumping that much of the 12, traveling 3 feet, and then making the cueball stick when contacting a ball that close to the rail .... well .... I suspect someone has some new rose-colored glasses. Someone else out there would I am almost positive like to give you a lot of weight. It is not that this is impossible but 4 times out of 10 you will lose outright within 2 innings, and 2 more times out of 10 you will wind up losing .... and 1 time out of 10, minimum, you will be run-out upon.... other 2 racks are a toss up.

Dang. Sorry I missed that match. Did not attend but watched the AccuStats show ...... I can highly recommend it to those who do not attend. Great value for the buck ..... of course there are the withdrawls when the feed goes dormant until next year. Nope ... I hold no financial interest in AccuStats.

Just to correct slightly, Dave -- it was "bigtruck's" www.poolactiontv.com that did the live stream. I thoroughly enjoyed it too, a very well spent $20!

PS apparently I won one of those cue holder thingee's in the raffle

bernie p. how is it that you were able to watch the shot several times? did you recoerd it somehow or is it archived somewhere?

frmn said:

bernie p. how is it that you were able to watch the shot several times? did you recoerd it somehow or is it archived somewhere?

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frmn,

Just lucky I found the "replay" feature. When watching the broadcast live I inadvertently hit a button that rewound the feed by a few minutes, so I was able to go back after the match and rewind to that spot.

I believe I heard BigTruck (the broadcaster) say that most matches would be available for viewing at a later date.

I'm not certain if there would be a cost to view those or not.

Thanks.

Bernie.

KindlyOleUncleDave said:

Just a thought. What other options did he have? Only a carom takeout off the 3 which, while it may take out the 7, does nothing to enhance his position. The combination and carom however at least moves the 8 into and hopefully clogging banking lanes minimizing the opponii's options should the 7 ball removal go awry. And if he comes too far up-table with the 3-7 carom the 8 looms large and the 13 even larger ... could turn the rack totally around and make Raphael the goat ... I can assure you he does not relish that role.

As for jumping that much of the 12, traveling 3 feet, and then making the cueball stick when contacting a ball that close to the rail .... well .... I suspect someone has some new rose-colored glasses. Someone else out there would I am almost positive like to give you a lot of weight. It is not that this is impossible but 4 times out of 10 you will lose outright within 2 innings, and 2 more times out of 10 you will wind up losing .... and 1 time out of 10, minimum, you will be run-out upon.... other 2 racks are a toss up.

Dang. Sorry I missed that match. Did not attend but watched the AccuStats show ...... I can highly recommend it to those who do not attend. Great value for the buck ..... of course there are the withdrawls when the feed goes dormant until next year. Nope ... I hold no financial interest in AccuStats.

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I know newfosgatesucks is capable of shooting that shot. I play a lot with him.

KindlyOleUncleDave said:

What other options did he have? Only a carom takeout off the 3 which, while it may take out the 7, does nothing to enhance his position.

As for jumping that much of the 12, traveling 3 feet, and then making the cueball stick when contacting a ball that close to the rail .... well .... I suspect someone has some new rose-colored glasses. Someone else out there would I am almost positive like to give you a lot of weight. It is not that this is impossible but 4 times out of 10 you will lose outright within 2 innings, and 2 more times out of 10 you will wind up losing .... and 1 time out of 10, minimum, you will be run-out upon.... other 2 racks are a toss up.

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Welcome back Dave.......it's obvious from this post of yours copied above, that while you were gone, you didn't work on trying to make shot-choice evaluations that were more correct......

First of all your breakdown on the positive/negative %-results of the jump shot option being chosen and executed by a proficient jumper are wrong...but way more wrong is your stating/declaring: "What other options did he have? Only a carom takeout off the 3"....oh really, well, with the wei table layout that Steve presented us with (which is all we here have to go by) Rafael had a completely simple, safe, effective shot available to him = all he had to do was softly shoot the 14ball straight ahead, and freeze the cueball on the rail - from there his opponent has nothing, and may very well be in trouble himself, very soon....and if you're a thinker, and you play this game at a high level strategically, then at the same time as you have the cueball end up on the rail, you apply One Pocket's version of multi-tasking, and you also try and have the 14ball end up tying up your opponent's 8ball, and blocking his 5ball....all of which is shown here >>>


- Ghost

PS, If you hadn't, as usual, felt the need to knock my shot choice opinions, I wouldn't have bothered to point out your errors....


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One Pocket Ghost said:

Welcome back Dave.......it's obvious from this post of yours copied above, that while you were gone, you didn't work on trying to make shot-choice evaluations that were more correct......

First of all your breakdown on the positive/negative %-results of the jump shot option being chosen and executed by a proficient jumper are wrong...but way more wrong is your stating/declaring: "What other options did he have? Only a carom takeout off the 3"....oh really, well, with the wei table layout that Steve presented us with (which is all we here have to go by) Rafael had a completely simple, safe, effective shot available to him = all he had to do was softly shoot the 14ball straight ahead, and freeze the cueball on the rail - from there his opponent has nothing, and may very well be in trouble himself, very soon....and if you're a thinker, and you play this game at a high level strategically, then at the same time as you have the cueball end up on the rail, you apply One Pocket's version of multi-tasking, and you also try and have the 14ball end up tying up your opponent's 8ball, and blocking his 5ball....all of which is shown here >>>


- Ghost

PS, If you hadn't, as usual, felt the need to knock my shot choice opinions, I wouldn't have bothered to point out your errors....


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Thanks for such a rousing welcome back.

I did not, to my knowledge, knock any shot choice of yours. But next time I see an opportunity to do so you can bet your bippy that I shall.

My percentages certainly were in error .... I was so carried away that I only mentioned 9 out of the 10 racks. I would turn the 10th over to you so that you could play woosie shots like the 14 and leave the opponent a shot to clear out some and perhaps all that stuff upstream of your pocket and leave you against the stack .... As for the jumping, I stand by my statement .... try that stuff with anyone stronger that a B player and you will have day old fishwrap for a blanket and an Annie Green Springs bottle for a pillow.

In the interest of nice, I will leave now

KindlyOleUncleDave said:

I did not, to my knowledge, knock any shot choice of yours.

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KindlyOleUncleDave said:

well .... I suspect someone has some new rose-colored glasses. Someone else out there would I am almost positive like to give you a lot of weight.

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Well now, since I was the one who highly recommended the jump shot to the qualified shooter as an excellent shot choice...and you posted the above quote knocking the jump shot, and its promoter...are you saying that the "someone" and the "you" that I highlighted in blue in your post, was not me that you were referring to?


PS, And by the way, if I played my safety on you, being as how you're frozen on the rail, you're not gonna be clearing out balls and controlling whitey into the stack.

One Pocket Ghost said:

Well now, since I was the one who highly recommended the jump shot to the qualified shooter as an excellent shot choice...and you posted the above quote knocking the jump shot, and its promoter...are you saying that the "someone" and the "you" that I highlighted in blue in your post, was not me that you were referring to?


PS, And by the way, if I played my safety on you, being as how you're frozen on the rail, you're not gonna be clearing out balls and controlling whitey into the stack.

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We both seem so sure of ourselves that I feel something is wrong. Perhaps we went to different schools together or something like that. One must momentarily be reminded of the old observation that when two folks shake hands in a poolroom, one of them is the mark.

Ordinarily I will argue until the cows come home but it is late (I'd not be up but for a large brown dog having awakened me). Here again however, I figure that you too would argue as long and vociferously as would I.

A point is that it was Newfosgatesucks who first suggested the jump shot as an option and you but subscribed to it. Perhaps that member is sufficiently skilled to successfully do as he envisions (although he has a 'perhaps' relative to final resting place of the cueball in there as I recall). You, who self-admittedly have no jumping ability, are seduced by the possibilities of the execution: I, who have jumping ability [and eschew the use of the shortened 'sissy pole'], am not sufficiently seduced to jump in this position and will be among those who book the 'no' option.

As far as being frozen to the 'rizz', it is a powerful tool and severly restricts what one can realisticly accomplish. Given the layout even I may not be able to rip all the balls out but I guarantee that entering your inning you will swear you hear the jailer bringing your bread and water.

Is your middle name 'Mark'?

Oh, and Mark .... my only thought as to options was one which at a minimum removed the 7 and advanced 'my' position. Moving the 14 as you have indicated is not a bad shot however it is just 'getting out of the inning' in my opinion.

Recent posts have convinced me again that this is the most deliberative pool site on the internet.

Where else do you find a single shot choice treated with the gravity of 5-star generals debating plans for the invasion of Normandy?

PFC Skin

Skin said:

Recent posts have convinced me again that this is the most deliberative pool site on the internet.

Where else do you find a single shot choice treated with the gravity of 5-star generals debating plans for the invasion of Normandy?

PFC Skin

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ROFL !

I doubt their egos were as large as those of we pocket billiard enthusiasts.

Skin said:

Recent posts have convinced me again that this is the most deliberative pool site on the internet.

Where else do you find a single shot choice treated with the gravity of 5-star generals debating plans for the invasion of Normandy?

PFC Skin

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Especially if you question the opinion of someone from the pool mecca of the world (Chicago).

It also appears all that wind has blown most of their skin off, so you have to tread lightly.

Jumping....

Jumping....

I play with an18.6 oz cue, and can jump a full ball from1-1/2 ball spaces away and draw the cueball. Yes, I am comfortable with a jump shot. I, like earl, believe in the jump with your playing cue theory.

Each player has strengths and weaknesses. Each player sees different things, and chooses a shot from the batch of options he sees, chosen by risk/reward divided by ease of execution.

Seeing something different here is the REASON for the thread. Uncle dave, no disrespect taken, as none intended.

Did I decode your statement right? Did you offer me a large spot? Lol !!!