Good advice... Poor student!

Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
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3,317
From
Houston, Texas
JJ was in Houston to play some 10 ball with Many Chau this week...
I was hitting a shot I shoot a lot ( straight in table length shot ) to help me try and renew muscle memory and also stay down after the shot... Jeremy came over and offered some advice...

The first thing he said was "You're hammering it, try hitting it easier."
Well, I did, and couldn't make the shot.

The next advice he gave was to watch where the cue stick ended up at after the shot.. It finished semi- vertical and I missed again...

Then he said to finish with the tip down, not up, and do not move the bridge hand.. I did and made the shot, but was still hammering it.

Then he said I was to quick back and this made me to quick forward with the stroke, making me jerky and causing me to hammer the shot. Take it back slower and allow for a smoother transition forward.. I tried it several times and it became easier after a few attempts..

Then he said just remember that balls gone in much better when you don't decelerate, always complete the stroke...

Now I've got all this good advice in my head and I can't make a ball!!!!
I hope it will eventually work itself out, and I will be able to get past thinking about to many things at one time, but right now, I'm struggling with it..

Jeremy is a good guy, and a great player... He is an excellent commentator and even better teacher because he cares so much about the game... Just thought I would pay it forward, the lesson was free.. Thanks JJ :)
 

jrhendy

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May 24, 2004
Messages
5,717
From
Placerville, CA
JJ was in Houston to play some 10 ball with Many Chau this week...
I was hitting a shot I shoot a lot ( straight in table length shot ) to help me try and renew muscle memory and also stay down after the shot... Jeremy came over and offered some advice...

The first thing he said was "You're hammering it, try hitting it easier."
Well, I did, and couldn't make the shot.

The next advice he gave was to watch where the cue stick ended up at after the shot.. It finished semi- vertical and I missed again...

Then he said to finish with the tip down, not up, and do not move the bridge hand.. I did and made the shot, but was still hammering it.

Then he said I was to quick back and this made me to quick forward with the stroke, making me jerky and causing me to hammer the shot. Take it back slower and allow for a smoother transition forward.. I tried it several times and it became easier after a few attempts..

Then he said just remember that balls gone in much better when you don't decelerate, always complete the stroke...

Now I've got all this good advice in my head and I can't make a ball!!!!
I hope it will eventually work itself out, and I will be able to get past thinking about to many things at one time, but right now, I'm struggling with it..

Jeremy is a good guy, and a great player... He is an excellent commentator and even better teacher because he cares so much about the game... Just thought I would pay it forward, the lesson was free.. Thanks JJ :)

One of the problems with being an older player is a different guy shows up each time you play. Whenever I start working on my mechanics, I change one to correct another and end up in a tailspin.

I do everything you describe on a regular basis. Jerking the stroke by going back too fast causes a multitude of problems including missing shots and poor position when you do make them.

I have a little secret I discovered I will share with you now. It works for me when I remember it. I look at my bridge hand. When I am jerking my stroke, I put too much pressure on my hand that is on the table. My hand gets dirty from pressing on the table too hard as I tense up on long or power shots. When I am playing well, loose and relaxed, I do not put as much pressure on the cloth and the telltale sign is a cleaner hand.

Just another thing for you to worry about before we play in Houston.:lol Glad I could help.
 

Mkbtank

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Apr 22, 2013
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5,901
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Philly Pa
Good advice... Poor student!

Nothing like a little good natured sharking prior to a match...almost spilled my coffee...LOL



B



I loved it lol. I'm surprised John didn't ask Jeff if he breathes in or out while hitting the ball 😂.
 

FrenchAT

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Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
151
From
Augusta, Georgia
JJ was in Houston to play some 10 ball with Many Chau this week...
I was hitting a shot I shoot a lot ( straight in table length shot ) to help me try and renew muscle memory and also stay down after the shot... Jeremy came over and offered some advice...

The first thing he said was "You're hammering it, try hitting it easier."
Well, I did, and couldn't make the shot.

The next advice he gave was to watch where the cue stick ended up at after the shot.. It finished semi- vertical and I missed again...

Then he said to finish with the tip down, not up, and do not move the bridge hand.. I did and made the shot, but was still hammering it.

Then he said I was to quick back and this made me to quick forward with the stroke, making me jerky and causing me to hammer the shot. Take it back slower and allow for a smoother transition forward.. I tried it several times and it became easier after a few attempts..

Then he said just remember that balls gone in much better when you don't decelerate, always complete the stroke...

Now I've got all this good advice in my head and I can't make a ball!!!!
I hope it will eventually work itself out, and I will be able to get past thinking about to many things at one time, but right now, I'm struggling with it..

Jeremy is a good guy, and a great player... He is an excellent commentator and even better teacher because he cares so much about the game... Just thought I would pay it forward, the lesson was free.. Thanks JJ :)

Unfortunately this all sounds very familiar to me as I have been instructed on countless occasions about my heavy hand and shooting too hard. I also have experienced similar results when attempting to slow down my stroke. Deceleration and failure to follow through are far too common when I attempt to slow down and more than likely with even worse results than you are experiencing. They say that most stroke problems occur in or are caused by the backstroke. When I am having an off day or need to be more precise, I shorten the backstroke as much as I think I can get away with. Maybe it only helps because I think it does but there are days you couldn't convince me otherwise.
 

cincy_kid

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Nov 23, 2015
Messages
7,794
From
Cincinnati, OH
Thanks for the post and paying it forward Jeff!

One thing that comes to mind when I was reading this post is one of the main concepts of the book "The Inner Game of Tennis", which again, for those that have not read it, it's a must read for anyone competing at any level in any type of game...

The concept is, you have practiced doing things so many times that its already in your head - you already know how to do it. You know how to make that ball the length of the table, you know how to run out, you know how to put a certain spin on the ball, all the knowledge and experience of doing those things already exist for you. But what happens is when we think too hard or try too hard, we become our worst enemy.

That's why when you see someone playing at the top of their game, some may say, "Wow, he's is playing out of his mind!" -- and that's exactly what they are doing. Basically if you keep your mind out of the way and just execute like you already know how to do, you can prevent those lapses of concentration that can keep a player from winning....

I wanted to point this out Jeff because once you practice some of the things that JJ or anyone else shows you, you will have the mechanics down...just overcome the self-doubt and or nervousness and you are well on your way buddy!
 

Hardmix

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Feb 28, 2015
Messages
1,158
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Cumming Ga
jeff when is the last time you made a put with a quick back swing? The pool stroke is the same....fluid.

Ben
 

youngstown

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Jan 15, 2015
Messages
1,748
Good advice... Poor student!

One of the problems with being an older player is a different guy shows up each time you play. Whenever I start working on my mechanics, I change one to correct another and end up in a tailspin.

I do everything you describe on a regular basis. Jerking the stroke by going back too fast causes a multitude of problems including missing shots and poor position when you do make them.

I have a little secret I discovered I will share with you now. It works for me when I remember it. I look at my bridge hand. When I am jerking my stroke, I put too much pressure on my hand that is on the table. My hand gets dirty from pressing on the table too hard as I tense up on long or power shots. When I am playing well, loose and relaxed, I do not put as much pressure on the cloth and the telltale sign is a cleaner hand.

Just another thing for you to worry about before we play in Houston.:lol Glad I could help.



Maybe you just play better on cleaner tables lol
 

youngstown

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Jan 15, 2015
Messages
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Good advice... Poor student!

Thanks for the post and paying it forward Jeff!



One thing that comes to mind when I was reading this post is one of the main concepts of the book "The Inner Game of Tennis", which again, for those that have not read it, it's a must read for anyone competing at any level in any type of game...



The concept is, you have practiced doing things so many times that its already in your head - you already know how to do it. You know how to make that ball the length of the table, you know how to run out, you know how to put a certain spin on the ball, all the knowledge and experience of doing those things already exist for you. But what happens is when we think too hard or try too hard, we become our worst enemy.



That's why when you see someone playing at the top of their game, some may say, "Wow, he's is playing out of his mind!" -- and that's exactly what they are doing. Basically if you keep your mind out of the way and just execute like you already know how to do, you can prevent those lapses of concentration that can keep a player from winning....



I wanted to point this out Jeff because once you practice some of the things that JJ or anyone else shows you, you will have the mechanics down...just overcome the self-doubt and or nervousness and you are well on your way buddy!



Great book.
 

RedCard

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Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
584
Thanks for the post and paying it forward Jeff!

One thing that comes to mind when I was reading this post is one of the main concepts of the book "The Inner Game of Tennis", which again, for those that have not read it, it's a must read for anyone competing at any level in any type of game...

The concept is, you have practiced doing things so many times that its already in your head - you already know how to do it. You know how to make that ball the length of the table, you know how to run out, you know how to put a certain spin on the ball, all the knowledge and experience of doing those things already exist for you. But what happens is when we think too hard or try too hard, we become our worst enemy.

That's why when you see someone playing at the top of their game, some may say, "Wow, he's is playing out of his mind!" -- and that's exactly what they are doing. Basically if you keep your mind out of the way and just execute like you already know how to do, you can prevent those lapses of concentration that can keep a player from winning....

I wanted to point this out Jeff because once you practice some of the things that JJ or anyone else shows you, you will have the mechanics down...just overcome the self-doubt and or nervousness and you are well on your way buddy!

'Inner Game of Tennis' is a good book, its lessons apply across games. The author, Tim Gallwey, put out another one (not quite as good in my opinion) a couple of years later called 'Inner Tennis'.
 

GoldCrown

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Dec 9, 2013
Messages
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Thanks for this thread. Last Nov I was starting to feel consistent improvement. Was definitely playing better pool. By May I fell apart.... selling out repeatedly from missing easy shots. Played pretty poorly this Summer and felt like hanging it up for a while. Last month I'm playing in room and being streamed... The owner says this is a good thing as I can review my game. What I immediately got out of watching myself.... fast backswing...no pause and fast fore swing.... totally out of sync with SPF. Lately I'm using my rusty mind...focusing on concentrating. Slowed the backswing down to the pace of a snail with airbrakes...pause, about a 2 speed fore swing and began playing much better. Started to feel good as I was ready to toss my cues(cheapest ones) in the Lake. Small changes are big.
 

beatle

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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
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what happens is you have developed your stoke over a million hits and your mind will revert to that stroke whenever you let it. so live with it and play accordingly.

if you are unhappy with it then you cannot make adjustments and go play. you need to go hit a few thousand shots with each new change to ingrain it in your brain and natural swing of the cue.

otherwise you are going to never again be consistent until you practice enough with the change..
 

Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
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3,317
From
Houston, Texas
what happens is you have developed your stoke over a million hits and your mind will revert to that stroke whenever you let it. so live with it and play accordingly.

if you are unhappy with it then you cannot make adjustments and go play. you need to go hit a few thousand shots with each new change to ingrain it in your brain and natural swing of the cue.

otherwise you are going to never again be consistent until you practice enough with the change..

You are probably right about incorporating new changes into a game situation, as I evidenced this very thing in a match just yesterday... Androd (Rod) and I were playing Marvin Diaz our usual partners game and I was trying to use the softer stroke JJ had shown me the other day.

It wasn't working, I was struggling with it mightily and if not for Rod's steady play and encouragement to return to my normal hammer stroke we would have been in trouble. As it turned out, we won 4 games and I was able to help somewhat in the victory.

Moral is I suppose, go to what you know... Practice later... That Rod is a pretty smart cookie.. He has been a huge help in my struggles to learn one pocket.

Several members here have also been instrumental in giving sound advice and I am grateful for all the comments along the way.. Thanks guys. :)
 

darmoose

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May 16, 2012
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Baltimore, MD
You are probably right about incorporating new changes into a game situation, as I evidenced this very thing in a match just yesterday... Androd (Rod) and I were playing Marvin Diaz our usual partners game and I was trying to use the softer stroke JJ had shown me the other day.

It wasn't working, I was struggling with it mightily and if not for Rod's steady play and encouragement to return to my normal hammer stroke we would have been in trouble. As it turned out, we won 4 games and I was able to help somewhat in the victory.

Moral is I suppose, go to what you know... Practice later... That Rod is a pretty smart cookie.. He has been a huge help in my struggles to learn one pocket.

Several members here have also been instrumental in giving sound advice and I am grateful for all the comments along the way.. Thanks guys. :)

Jeff,

I have found what works for me is to focus on results rather than any mechanics. As an example, I was having trouble with long banks trying to play "pocket speed", and never getting them to the hole. You know what they say, "at least 75% of those that don't get there won't go in".I changed my priority to getting there, and soon my long banks improved.

Mechanics are for practice only, I think?

Good luck:)
 

GoldCrown

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Dec 9, 2013
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The change in mechanics..... I find things get worse and then get better ... a lot better.
 

androd

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Dec 10, 2008
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New Braunfels tx.
You are probably right about incorporating new changes into a game situation, as I evidenced this very thing in a match just yesterday... Androd (Rod) and I were playing Marvin Diaz our usual partners game and I was trying to use the softer stroke JJ had shown me the other day.

It wasn't working, I was struggling with it mightily and if not for Rod's steady play and encouragement to return to my normal hammer stroke we would have been in trouble. As it turned out, we won 4 games and I was able to help somewhat in the victory.

Moral is I suppose, go to what you know... Practice later... That Rod is a pretty smart cookie.. He has been a huge help in my struggles to learn one pocket.

Several members here have also been instrumental in giving sound advice and I am grateful for all the comments along the way.. Thanks guys. :)

Thanks for the kind words. !
I believe Beetle is correct about the stroke we all use.
I also believe you can tweak your game with small changes to your stance and bridge and grip.

Although with grip as Beetle said you'll have to hit some balls because the OB will go somewhere different than before.
 

beatle

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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
3,572
we all can improve somewhere. but it is suicide to make changes you havent practiced and gotten ingrained into your stroke.

and as darmoose said, adjust during the game mistakes you are making and stop making those. pay attention to what mistakes you are making and not just let them go. as most times you can find a big leak and it may get fixed just by being aware of it.

my thing is when i get running balls sometimes i steer a long shot and of course then miss it or miss the position. or worse use english to cut the ball more to keep the cue ball from moving as much and then dont put enough on it to do the job.
 

gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
Messages
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Gulfport, Mississippi
what happens is you have developed your stoke over a million hits and your mind will revert to that stroke whenever you let it. so live with it and play accordingly.

if you are unhappy with it then you cannot make adjustments and go play. you need to go hit a few thousand shots with each new change to ingrain it in your brain and natural swing of the cue.

otherwise you are going to never again be consistent until you practice enough with the change..
I agree with this. And for some, the change will never take, irrespective of how much practice accompanies it. I found that out the hard way. Years back I decided to make over some of my mechanics-- especially the gap between shooting arm and body. I messed around with other aspects of the stance and stroke as well. As a result there were so many different corrections and "feels" running through my mind that my game became very inconsistent. I still suffer with it today.

So my advice for an experienced player is to leave his stroke/stance alone, and just fall back on your fundamentals. It's possible that a very small change might work without too much anguish (e.g. a slower back swing); but major changes might throw you into fits of confusion..:(

~Doc
 
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