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  #11  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:50 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Originally Posted by SactownTom View Post
TD/Ref Ken Shuman made the correct call under the circumstances.
Credit John Morra for standing up and asking the tough questions.

No credit to SVB, none at all... the game was lost after SVB tried to take it.

Very poor sportsmanship. Cheating, lying and disrespect for the game and players for SVB to try to pull this crap.

Where is the player's association? Wouldn't a player that openly gets caught cheating/lying get fined? suspended? punished a lot more than ONE game...

Unforgivable!!!!!

Is this what Cowboy Dennis wanted someone to post in response?

Is it common for all professional pool players to accept what is given to them and not question it? "never look a gift horse in the mouth"

This happens in pool a lot, it's not that big of a deal. But, apparently it is to some people.
Cowboy Dennis doesn't give much of a damn what you or anyone else writes or thinks about anything. Many people do care about players cheating in any sport.

Dennis
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:56 PM
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Gee Dennis, I am somewhat confused. I do 'care' more than most players, I just find it difficult to see you so determined to inform everyone about SVB's unforgivable lying and cheating. I get the point if that is all you wanted to do, but you seem to have another agenda I am not getting.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Cowboy Dennis doesn't give much of a damn what you or anyone else writes or thinks about anything. Many people do care about players cheating in any sport.

Dennis
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:11 PM
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Gee Dennis, I am somewhat confused. I do 'care' more than most players, I just find it difficult to see you so determined to inform everyone about SVB's unforgivable lying and cheating. I get the point if that is all you wanted to do, but you seem to have another agenda I am not getting.

Tom
Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

P.S. Tom, I don't mince words or equivocate in any way, I write what I think & feel and I don't care who likes it or doesn't. How I could have a hidden agenda would be a mystery to anyone here I would think.

Dennis

Last edited by Cowboy Dennis; 06-01-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:15 PM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Dear Catfish Breath,

If you could read & comprehend the english language as well as you catch fish that nobody wants you would know that what I wrote about "nuthuggers" was not directed at you but at the morons who wrote things like this:

Here are just a few of the comments made concerning SVB's cheating:

...just had a moment...

...made a mistake in the heat of the moment...

...a momentary lapse of morals & good judgement...

...acted irresponsibly...

...a lapse in judgement...

...made an attempt to cheat (but didn't actually cheat since he got caught(my words))...

...made a mistake...

...brain farted...

...error in judgement...


And last but not least, one of my favorite spineless posts from Jay Helfert, what an idiot:

Let's just say Shane made a mistake and lesson learned. And let it go at that. I too like Shane a lot and think he is a great representative for American pool, but even he can make a mistake. Hopefully he learns from this experience that he will always be in the spotlight and people watch everything he does closely (on or off the table!), just like any other public figure. If it had happened to almost any other player on an outside table we'd probably never hear about it.




Now to answer your question about Morra's intent. First of all, what does it matter whether he play-acted or not? SVB is doing the cheating here but I'll show what I think happened from the "tale of the tape".
Secondly, Morra presumably had lost the game so he could only gain from that point on so maybe he knew what he was doing.

Here's what I think happened & the time from the DVD:

00:50:41 One second after SVB gives Morra a nod as if to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball Morra reaches for his balls to return them to the table:

Attachment 6032

00:50:49 SVB grabs the 6 ball as Morra sits down:

Attachment 6033

00:50:52 Morra seems to be listening to someone on the sideline, he's not watching SVB:

Attachment 6034

00:50:56 Morra returns to question SVB:

Attachment 6035

At 00:50:40 SVB gives Morra a nod to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball. 16 seconds later Morra returns to the table to question SVB. Morra was told something by someone on the sideline before he returned to the table. I think someone pointed the situation out to him but he could've known what he was doing all along too. Again, it doesn't matter if Morra let SVB hang himself does it? SVB put his head in the noose all by himself.

He pretended to win a game that he fully knew he didn't win.


Cowboy "Zapruder" Dennis
Oh ok,Man your good.throw my idea out.I don't think John was playing it out Like I thought he might have been doing.Least the evidence you are showing appears that is not the case,Uh? And yes your right it doesn't and wouldn't have and shouldn't have mattered anyway.I hope the worst we do is get caught not calling a foul Dude,it's not looking good for ole svb.I will watch him very close if and when I'm playing him from now on.That does suck that he really did try that.I think I said somewhere around here,to trust no one on the pool table.Ya think that's a good example,people?? Wow is all I can think of right now.John B.

PS:HEY that hurts,talking bout my fish like that.That's just mean.If ya cut the red meat out,their the best fish you ever had!!! And they put up a good fight too!!
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:18 PM
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PS:HEY that hurts,talking bout my fish like that.That's just mean.If ya cut the red meat out,their the best fish you ever had!!! And they put up a good fight too!!
O.K., I'll take back the fish comment, I don't want to hurt your feelers.

RBL
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:25 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
quote Dennis: SVB says "What, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).

Cold blooded. That to me was the deepest dig in your whole presentation. It got a long, sick laugh out of me.

Beard
Funny as it is Freddy that is what SVB did when JM first asked him the question. He put his finger to his ear to indicate that he hadn't heard him.

P.S. I know SVB is hearing-impaired but he didn't have any problems hearing the applause when he made the 3 in the wrong pocket. That sound made him "take a shot".

Dennis
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:26 PM
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So your only agenda is to 'OUT' all the cheaters you can and let everyone know what, where and when they committed the offense.

I can understand that, but why the comments about 'nut huggers' and so defensive about other peoples opinions. Yours is the only opinion that you can share. Others in this forum have the right to share theirs also. Correct or just plain out Dumb, it is their opinion.

I'll always defend anyone's right to have an opinion, even yours. But, I don't agree about the derogatory comments you seem to spew in advance of any responses.

I get that SVB cheated, lied and IMO should have been DQ'd on the spot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

Dennis
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SactownTom View Post
So your only agenda is to 'OUT' all the cheaters you can and let everyone know what, where and when they committed the offense.

I can understand that, but why the comments about 'nut huggers' and so defensive about other peoples opinions. Yours is the only opinion that you can share. Others in this forum have the right to share theirs also. Correct or just plain out Dumb, it is their opinion.

I'll always defend anyone's right to have an opinion, even yours. But, I don't agree about the derogatory comments you seem to spew in advance of any responses.

I get that SVB cheated, lied and IMO should have been DQ'd on the spot.
Tom,

Did you read the original post I made when this incident first happened? I started that thread minutes after the final match ended (to my recollection). Nobody had yet made comments in defense of SVB here or on the AZ site. The comments I quoted all came from people here or on AZ in defense of SVB. I didn't go on "attack" mode or anything first, I responded to people who defended SVB's actions. There's a difference to me. There were no "nuthugger" comments by me until the nuthuggers started defending SVB.

My comments have not been "spewed in advance of any responses", my comments were made months ago in response to SVB's nuthuggers.

Let me ask you a serious question since you are interested in my motives: If you had seen this incident would you have started a thread commenting on it? Would you post pics, if available, to show what happened? If I didn't do it then tell me who would have done it. Even people who saw it didn't believe it and made excuses for SVB.

I've done it because nobody else did and probably nobody else would.

Dennis
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:37 PM
Scrzbill Scrzbill is offline
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

Dennis
There is an article in Cue Sports journal which Ken Shuman gives an entirely different perspective from your accusations of lying, cheating. What's the difference between this and not calling a foul on yourself when you foul. If you don't call fouls on yourself when there is a foul, then there is no difference making a fouled shot. If one is cheating, the other is. A foul is a foul. Calling a ball four rails, making it two rails, and either deliberately or not claiming a good shot is a loss of turn. Raking the balls is a loss of game. I know I am the only person on the site that has called one thing and shot something else. I am sure Beard has never thought one thing and called something else either. You can show all the blurbs of videos you want, but until you can read someones thoughts, its just rabid speculation and defamation to call this a "chronology of a cheater". Are you going to apologize and make a formal apology for calling him a cheat and a liar? No! Your self righteousness moralizing without any facts is disgusting. If you persist in calling SVB a cheater, liar, then you are calling Cue Sports magazine, Ken Shuman, liars and cheaters also. I am sure you will come back with more unfounded personal defamations of me, then I consider the source.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrzbill View Post
There is an article in Cue Sports journal which Ken Shuman gives an entirely different perspective from your accusations of lying, cheating. What's the difference between this and not calling a foul on yourself when you foul. If you don't call fouls on yourself when there is a foul, then there is no difference making a fouled shot. If one is cheating, the other is. A foul is a foul. Calling a ball four rails, making it two rails, and either deliberately or not claiming a good shot is a loss of turn. Raking the balls is a loss of game. I know I am the only person on the site that has called one thing and shot something else. I am sure Beard has never thought one thing and called something else either. You can show all the blurbs of videos you want, but until you can read someones thoughts, its just rabid speculation and defamation to call this a "chronology of a cheater". Are you going to apologize and make a formal apology for calling him a cheat and a liar? No! Your self righteousness moralizing without any facts is disgusting. If you persist in calling SVB a cheater, liar, then you are calling Cue Sports magazine, Ken Shuman, liars and cheaters also. I am sure you will come back with more unfounded personal defamations of me, then I consider the source.
Bill,

You are missing a major point: SVB finally admitted to Schuman & Morra that he called the ball 4 rails. Schuman called that out to the audience. It's on the DVD. That's SVB admitting being a liar right there in front of everybody.

P.S. Schuman was taken in by SVB's act also, that's why he carried the balls from SVB's tray and dumped them on the table. Schuman is an employee and if he want's to continue being one he probably won't attack SVB.

Are we running low on meds Bill?

Dennis
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