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  #21  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:35 PM
lfigueroa lfigueroa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
Reminds me of an old axiom that tells me why I should quit trying to wake up the dead, "A fool convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

the Beard

You know what Freddy, the quote is very cute and all, and I could come up with half a dozen quotes to counter, but why not roll up your sleeves and explain the logic, if any, as to why you think this shot selection was right? Otherwise you belong on AZ :-)

Lou Figueroa
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:46 PM
lfigueroa lfigueroa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis
mr3cushion,

I don't mean to detract from Artie's win or make excuses for John's loss. That is not my business or my concern. I am putting myself in the postion of playing someone who passes up those two balls to play safe. Nobody has ever done that to me and won. The biggest "squeeze" artist that we had around here, (Detroit), was "Miami". He was the original squeeze artist around this part. I could not believe how safe he played and refused to shoot at his hole when given a decent shot. And he did compliment Artie's game one day by saying about Artie: "That guy, he don't give up no shot".

Without seeming to make any excuses for anybody it is necessary to point out that JH had severe leg problems just before the match to the point where he was not sure if he would be able to play or not, if I remember correctly,(and I could be wrong).

I will say this, forgetting everything else for a moment, the match took almost 12 hours for 11 games to be played. That is as close to even as you can get I guess. I tip my hat to both players for their game, but you cannot ever convince me that passing up those two open balls is the right shot in that situation. If Artie had lost, you or some others would be saying that he was crazy for passing up those two balls, wouldn't you?

Dennis

This also reminds me of an observation Billy himself made on a tape. He said something like: playing (I think) Allen Hopkins, on his own table, Billy felt totally comfortable because (I took it), Hopkins was playing this style pool. Billy was happy and unthreaten. OTOH, playing Efren, he felt like he, "was in an oven" because every shot Efren shot at his hole and Billy never knew what Efren was going to do next.

ALL of us, at one time or another, have played someone who, when we thought we had sold out, went into shock when the other guy passed on offense and played something like the shot in question.

It's like a big fat wet one, right on the kisser. You settle in and say to yourself, "Self, this guy can't hurt me" and you enjoy the match because the other guy can't win.

HST, if I'm playing a serious player, and he can pass on that kind of opportunity, and just basically f*ck with me, then I know I'm playing outside my weight class and just need to unscrew, unless I'm in it just for the lesson.

Lou Figueroa

Last edited by lfigueroa; 09-16-2009 at 09:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:58 PM
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NH Steve NH Steve is online now
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I think you guys may be missing another really important point that has to do specifically with the partners game format: Pairing a good "shooter" with a good strong defensive "mover" makes for a very, very solid team. Artie is obviously very comfortable with the defensive side, and Billy well suited to the offensive side. That's a formidable combination.
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  #24  
Old 09-17-2009, 12:04 AM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve
I think you guys may be missing another really important point that has to do specifically with the partners game format: Pairing a good "shooter" with a good strong defensive "mover" makes for a very, very solid team. Artie is obviously very comfortable with the defensive side, and Billy well suited to the offensive side. That's a formidable combination.

I'm strictly referring to the 1 on 1 match, not the partners game.
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  #25  
Old 09-17-2009, 12:28 AM
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KindlyOleUncleDave KindlyOleUncleDave is offline
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For the record, and this is my opinion,.... never mind.... another long dissertation gone.
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  #26  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:25 AM
philwelch philwelch is offline
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Now I can't wait for Artie and SJDick to match up.
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  #27  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:49 AM
jay helfert jay helfert is offline
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I watched a good bit of the partners match against John and then several games of the heads up match between Artie and John. All I've got to say is that Artie KNOWS One Pocket! This guy sees shots that Efren might overlook. And he executes them too! Now I understand why he was so feared around Chicago. It ain't just about squeezing, it's about understanding the game. And Artie UNDERSTANDS!
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  #28  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:55 AM
lll lll is online now
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jay could you give a few examples
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  #29  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Artie Bodendorfer Artie Bodendorfer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lll
jay could you give a few examples
THe partner game was vary different the me playing John. Billy wants to shoot on every shot and our two styles clash. Billy has a different style and a different way ove thinking. Billy wants to shoot at every shot. And her is a few things that happened in the games. Billy said He did 35 things I asked him to do and I wouldnt do one thing he asked me to do. But I did one Billy told me to cut the 7 ball in and I missed the shot by a dimond and a half. And After that Billy didnt ask me to shoot no more. THe Great Ronnie Allen was thier watching and he seen me bank a hangger bang to win a game 8 to 7 and thier were like 30 people watching and Ronnnie couldnt help himself he said Artie you finaly made a ball. And everyone started laughing. Ronnie said watching me and John play he is going to have to start drinking wisky the beers not strong enough we said he doesnt have tgat kind ove patience. Billy made almose all the balls but he shots And I move . And I move weather its a parther game or a single game. Billy has a lot ove Gamble and Billy was the only one thier gambling and looking to play and bet high. Billy has more gamble then all those pool players put together. If I was thier to play and Hustle Billy would be the man to play. Because he has money and he bets his money. And his gamescare tough were he can win or loose. And Billy will play anybody. It does not matter how good the play. John played better against me then he did in the partners game. But partner games are tough when both players do the opposite things in a game. And I am sure John enjoyed the head up game way over the parner game. I know I enjoyed the head up game better then the partner game. Every one I watched play one pocket played a shooting game but me. John playes very hard to win he is a ferce competitor. I had a great time at the tournement but the only action I seen was John and Billy. THe rest was all tournememt. I know if I play Dick he wont be sa much fun to play with as John. And I sat that because you cannot find a nicer man to play with then John. Billys Style is shooting. My style is shooting and John does both styles. Ronnie watched me play and he said he never seen nothing like it. And he thinks like Dick that his style would have won. But thats what all the shooters think including Billy. I like the Chicago Squezze over the West coast Offense.
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  #30  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:24 PM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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Default Ronnie not Efren

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa
This also reminds me of an observation Billy himself made on a tape. He said something like: playing (I think) Allen Hopkins, on his own table, Billy felt totally comfortable because (I took it), Hopkins was playing this style pool. Billy was happy and unthreaten. OTOH, playing Efren, he felt like he, "was in an oven" because every shot Efren shot at his hole and Billy never knew what Efren was going to do next.

ALL of us, at one time or another, have played someone who, when we thought we had sold out, went into shock when the other guy passed on offense and played something like the shot in question.

It's like a big fat wet one, right on the kisser. You settle in and say to yourself, "Self, this guy can't hurt me" and you enjoy the match because the other guy can't win.

HST, if I'm playing a serious player, and he can pass on that kind of opportunity, and just basically f*ck with me, then I know I'm playing outside my weight class and just need to unscrew, unless I'm in it just for the lesson.

Lou Figueroa
I'm not going to repeat the quote again (a fool...etc.,) but I want to correct you on the Billy quote. I put that quote in one of my books years ago. The player he was referring to that had put him in a "hot oven" was Ronnie Allen not Efren, and Billy was receiving the same game from Hopkins and Ronnie.

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