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Old 06-01-2012, 07:24 AM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Default Chronology Of A Cheater

I was watching live (onstream) when this incident happened with SVB trying to steal a ball and a game from Morra at the 2012 DCC Bank tourney. I will need to make two posts to show the pics so you'll have to read the second post in this thread to see the rest of the pics. This is what I originally wrote (http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6307 about SVB stealing the ball:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Dennis

A Funny Thing Happened...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the D.C.C. Bank Finals (2nd finals), game 2, SVB was left this position by Johnny Morra and he needed one ball. I didn't see him call a pocket but he fired the two-railer in with speed and everyone applauded so I figured he had called it two-rails and I missed it.

He shook his head a little and took the 3 out of the pocket and looked like he was going to spot it up. Then it looked like he had an epiphany as he got near the footrail. He picked up the 6 & the cueball, or at least the 6 (as best as I can remember) and acted like he had played the 3 ball two-rails and thus won the game. The TD brought over the other balls and SVB started to rack for the next game.

Johnny Morra finally inquired as to which pocket Shane had called for the 3 as he apparently didn't know. The TD got involved now and the three of them talked for a couple of minutes. It was finally decided that SVB had called the 3 ball four-rails. Morra was awarded the game since SVB had disturbed the balls on the table.

Did anyone see this happen? It seems a clear case of cheating to me but why would SVB do that in front of an audience, cameras and a TD? The audience didn't know anything since they applauded when he made the 3. I must be missing something here but I don't know what.
For the most part, what I wrote is correct with a couple of minor mistakes that came from only having seen the event one time. Here is the shot Morra left for SVB. Contrary to what some guy wrote on AZ who said he saw the replay in booth 20 times, the 3 ball is on the spot not below it. Morra just pocketed the 3 in the corner where SVB is standing:

Here is my original rendition of the layout as I remembered it and then the actual layout. Pretty close eh?

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SVB, to my viewing even now, did not call the 3 ball anywhere but he jacked up and shot it 2 rails to the corner he is standing at. He then reaches in, takes the 3 ball out, shakes his head a little, and then rolls the 3 downtable towards the spot, so far he's done nothing wrong but the audience is applauding wildly thinking he played the ball 2 rails:

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When he gets right about here he looks directly at Morra and nods a little as if to say "yes, that's where I played it". The 3 ball is still actually rolling towards the spot at this point, that's how quickly SVB made up his mind to cheat:

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Only after getting confirmation from SVB does Morra stand up and takes his balls to the table, TD Schuman does the same with the balls SVB had in his tray. At this point the cueball & 6 ball are still undisturbed and the 3 hasn't been spotted up at all. SVB goes to his break cue figuring he fooled everybody:

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The next couple of pics are in the next post.

Dennis
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:48 AM
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Morra & Shuman put balls on table after SVB fakes them out:

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NOBODY to this point has touched the cueball or the 6 ball until SVB grabs the 6 to rack the balls up:

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Finally Morra comes over and makes inquiry as to whether or not SVB called the 3 ball two-rails. SVB says "what, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).

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After the TD gets involved it ends up being a full 2 minutes from the time SVB pocketed the 3 till he admits he's a liar and goes and sits down. Anyone who thinks this was a "blip" or a quick brain fart is an idiot. Let me make this perfectly clear to you nuthuggers: SVB admitted to the TD that he called the ball 4 rails and made it 2 rails and tried to take credit for the win.

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As soon as SVB pocketed the 3 ball co-commentator Mark Wilson said:"He did not play that shot, just so you know."

TD Schuman said later:"Shane called his shot 4 rails, he made it 2 rails, so the ball shouldn't count but then he picked up the balls as if the game was over. That's loss of game."

Danny DiLiberto said in part:"He was bluffing, he wanted everyone to be convinced he played it. I'm here to call it the way I see it."

SVB is a cheater, liar, thief and a general all-around dishonest person to do this. Anyone who would defend or excuse or try to minimalize his actions is a coward.

John Brumback, don't bother getting back to us after you discuss this incident with SVB, I knew what happened that night and now that I've seen the DVD I know for certain that I was correct.

Dennis
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:01 AM
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fred bentivegna fred bentivegna is offline
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quote Dennis: SVB says "What, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).

Cold blooded. That to me was the deepest dig in your whole presentation. It got a long, sick laugh out of me.

Beard
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:07 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine

Listen here hotshot.I'm not buddys with SVB.Only talked to him a couple times in my life.What do you think I'm going to do,run to SVB and say...hey look there's this Cowboy guy on the internet And he's running your name through the mud.( I know,I know,you could care less If I did) Nah,that's not me.( I could care less either way) I'm sure as hell not one of them nuthuggers either, as you like to call them.

Now with all that out of the way,I will say you were right all the time.
I figured you were cause you don't miss much and now you have all the proof
in the world to show the nuthuggers that he did flatout try to cheat and got caught,redhanded!!! (I say you should call each and every bankshot,but that's just me) Can't for the life of me think why I said that,but I did.hehe

One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little. Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me John B.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine
One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little. Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me John B.
John,

Haven't you figured it out yet ???..RBL is a "Hatfield", and SVB is a "McCoy"..
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:25 AM
petie petie is offline
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I haven't seen the DVD or the live stream but I do have one question. How hard did he hit it? To make it 4 rails you have to give it a pretty good poke. Did he hit it hard enough to go 4 rails?
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:40 AM
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John Brumback John Brumback is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petie View Post
I haven't seen the DVD or the live stream but I do have one question. How hard did he hit it? To make it 4 rails you have to give it a pretty good poke. Did he hit it hard enough to go 4 rails?
Petie,I'm not 100% sure,but I think they said he hit it about warp speed.(hard)
What I can't figure out is why he didn't just shoot it straight back. 2 or 4 from where he was,was probably 1 out of 100,imo.John B.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:42 AM
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......are hard to find,Jack
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:43 PM
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TD/Ref Ken Shuman made the correct call under the circumstances.
Credit John Morra for standing up and asking the tough questions.

No credit to SVB, none at all... the game was lost after SVB tried to take it.

Very poor sportsmanship. Cheating, lying and disrespect for the game and players for SVB to try to pull this crap.

Where is the player's association? Wouldn't a player that openly gets caught cheating/lying get fined? suspended? punished a lot more than ONE game...

Unforgivable!!!!!

Is this what Cowboy Dennis wanted someone to post in response?

Is it common for all professional pool players to accept what is given to them and not question it? "never look a gift horse in the mouth"

This happens in pool a lot, it's not that big of a deal. But, apparently it is to some people.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brumback View Post
So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine

Listen here hotshot.I'm not buddys with SVB.Only talked to him a couple times in my life.What do you think I'm going to do,run to SVB and say...hey look there's this Cowboy guy on the internet And he's running your name through the mud.( I know,I know,you could care less If I did) Nah,that's not me.( I could care less either way) I'm sure as hell not one of them nuthuggers either, as you like to call them.

Now with all that out of the way,I will say you were right all the time.
I figured you were cause you don't miss much and now you have all the proof
in the world to show the nuthuggers that he did flatout try to cheat and got caught,redhanded!!! (I say you should call each and every bankshot,but that's just me) Can't for the life of me think why I said that,but I did.hehe

One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little. Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me John B.
Dear Catfish Breath,

If you could read & comprehend the english language as well as you catch fish that nobody wants you would know that what I wrote about "nuthuggers" was not directed at you but at the morons who wrote things like this:

Here are just a few of the comments made concerning SVB's cheating:

...just had a moment...

...made a mistake in the heat of the moment...

...a momentary lapse of morals & good judgement...

...acted irresponsibly...

...a lapse in judgement...

...made an attempt to cheat (but didn't actually cheat since he got caught(my words))...

...made a mistake...

...brain farted...

...error in judgement...


And last but not least, one of my favorite spineless posts from Jay Helfert, what an idiot:

Let's just say Shane made a mistake and lesson learned. And let it go at that. I too like Shane a lot and think he is a great representative for American pool, but even he can make a mistake. Hopefully he learns from this experience that he will always be in the spotlight and people watch everything he does closely (on or off the table!), just like any other public figure. If it had happened to almost any other player on an outside table we'd probably never hear about it.




Now to answer your question about Morra's intent. First of all, what does it matter whether he play-acted or not? SVB is doing the cheating here but I'll show what I think happened from the "tale of the tape".
Secondly, Morra presumably had lost the game so he could only gain from that point on so maybe he knew what he was doing.

Here's what I think happened & the time from the DVD:

00:50:41 One second after SVB gives Morra a nod as if to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball Morra reaches for his balls to return them to the table:

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00:50:49 SVB grabs the 6 ball as Morra sits down:

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00:50:52 Morra seems to be listening to someone on the sideline, he's not watching SVB:

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00:50:56 Morra returns to question SVB:

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At 00:50:40 SVB gives Morra a nod to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball. 16 seconds later Morra returns to the table to question SVB. Morra was told something by someone on the sideline before he returned to the table. I think someone pointed the situation out to him but he could've known what he was doing all along too. Again, it doesn't matter if Morra let SVB hang himself does it? SVB put his head in the noose all by himself.

He pretended to win a game that he fully knew he didn't win.


Cowboy "Zapruder" Dennis
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