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Old 10-25-2013, 05:36 PM
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Cowboy Dennis Cowboy Dennis is offline
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Default F. Bustamante vs. J. Hall

Bustamante has one ball and it's his shot. What would you do?


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Last edited by Cowboy Dennis; 10-26-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:23 PM
oldroller oldroller is offline
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the six straight back
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:35 PM
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He doesnt have a good shot. But with the balls pretty much open he probably is just going to have to shoot at something and take a little the worst of it. My axiom is that I try not to shoot at something than is going to be harder than the shot I leave -- unless I have to. ie., if I miss the 5 straight back I am going to leave easier cross corners or cross sides

In this spot I guess I would have to go all out -- because it is pointless to try and play safe off of this shot -- on the 5 ball straight back. It is the highest percentage shot that you are the closest to. Take your medicine, bull your neck, and go ahead and fire at the 5 ball and shoot at it the best way that you know how!

The fact that you have little other choice should make you more comfortable shooting at this ball.

Beard
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Last edited by fred bentivegna; 10-27-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:22 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
He doesnt have a good shot. But with the balls pretty much open he probably is just going to have to shoot at something and take a little the worst of it. My axiom is that I try not to shoot at something than is going to be harder than the shot I leave -- unless I have to. ie., if I miss the 3 straight back I am going to leave easier cross corners or cross sides

In this spot I guess I would have to go all out -- because it is pointless to try and play safe off of this shot -- on the 3 ball straight back. It is the highest percentage shot that you are the closest to. Take your medicine, bull your neck, and go ahead and fire at the 3 ball and shoot at it the best way that you know how!

The fact that you have little other choice should make you more comfortable shooting at this ball.

Beard
I like your thinking on situations of this kind, however, he has a good shot with 'crossing the 7ball' and laying the cue ball on the bottom rail near the 2ball. There's also the possibility that he could even call the 7ball straight back and play the shot to position the cue ball where I mentioned.

I'm not going to shoot a shot like the 3ball when I have a good safety that is easy to execute like the 7ball safety.

Waiting for your reply, Fred.

Dr. Bill
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:41 PM
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I like your thinking on situations of this kind, however, he has a good shot with 'crossing the 7ball' and laying the cue ball on the bottom rail near the 2ball. There's also the possibility that he could even call the 7ball straight back and play the shot to position the cue ball where I mentioned.

I'm not going to shoot a shot like the 3ball when I have a good safety that is easy to execute like the 7ball safety.

Waiting for your reply, Fred.

Dr. Bill
I looked at the straight back on the 7, but there isnt enough angle to get the cue ball far enough along the short rail to deny the oppo a cross side. To get the cue ball to where you want it, you would have to forego the straight back and just cross the 7 to a point where the cue ball would travel far enough under the ball on the spot to deny the cross side.

However, that wouldnt be so good either, because with the cue ball on the rail and straight in on the other ball (2)on the rail, if the oppo shoots that ball straight in and can get the cue ball to be frozen or almost frozen to the rail, after the ball is spotted up you will have difficulty playing off of those two spotted balls. I had already considered and discarded that option.

That is why you must consider what your opponent is going to do after you play your shot. There is much more to pool strategy than the obvious.

Beard
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:12 PM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
I looked at the straight back on the 7, but there isnt enough angle to get the cue ball far enough along the short rail to deny the oppo a cross side. To get the cue ball to where you want it, you would have to forego the straight back and just cross the 7 to a point where the cue ball would travel far enough under the ball on the spot to deny the cross side.

However, that wouldnt be so good either, because with the cue ball on the rail and straight in on the other ball (2)on the rail, if the oppo shoots that ball straight in and can get the cue ball to be frozen or almost frozen to the rail, after the ball is spotted up you will have difficulty playing off of those two spotted balls. I had already considered and discarded that option.

That is why you must consider what your opponent is going to do after you play your shot. There is much more to pool strategy than the obvious.

Beard
I showed you a good safety shot off the 7ball and you say you're afraid of leaving your opponent straight in on the 2ball, Are you really serious, is that all it takes for you to pass on a shot that will get you out of trouble? Give me a break, if you're passing aup a good safety for that reason you should take up "sweating pool" instead of playing pool.

Dr. Bill
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
He doesnt have a good shot. But with the balls pretty much open he probably is just going to have to shoot at something and take a little the worst of it. My axiom is that I try not to shoot at something than is going to be harder than the shot I leave -- unless I have to. ie., if I miss the 3 straight back I am going to leave easier cross corners or cross sides

In this spot I guess I would have to go all out -- because it is pointless to try and play safe off of this shot -- on the 3 ball straight back. It is the highest percentage shot that you are the closest to. Take your medicine, bull your neck, and go ahead and fire at the 3 ball and shoot at it the best way that you know how!

The fact that you have little other choice should make you more comfortable shooting at this ball.

Beard
A little help perhaps.


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Old 10-27-2013, 08:15 AM
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A little help perhaps.


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I edited my post (#3) to reflect the 5 ball as my choice of shot. I mistakenly called it the 3 ball.

Beard

In the above diagram, replace the 2 ball with the cue ball, as if you had just shot it in after Cardones safety, put the 2 ball on the spot and then someone tell me what to do safely from there? And if you can freeze the cue ball, I would really like to know the next shot.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:04 AM
wincardona wincardona is offline
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Originally Posted by fred bentivegna View Post
I edited my post (#3) to reflect the 5 ball as my choice of shot. I mistakenly called it the 3 ball.

Beard

In the above diagram, replace the 2 ball with the cue ball, as if you had just shot it in after Cardones safety, put the 2 ball on the spot and then someone tell me what to do safely from there? And if you can freeze the cue ball, I would really like to know the next shot.
The 7ball bank as an option would be an option for those who don't want to gamble on banking the 5ball and risking the game on a "low percentage" shot, considering how the balls are positioned. Imo there are many players that would not be comfortable on gambling with banking the 5ball and leaving their opponent in an enviable situation if they should happen not to make the bank. And when I say a "low percentage " shot, it's low percentage considering the consequence one pays if the bank is missed.

In regard to the leave after shooting the 7ball. There are a few places that the cue ball can end up, and not all of those positions would leave your opponent with a simple "shoot and stick" option as a return shot. But even if you could shoot the 2ball into the pocket and freeze the cue ball to the cushion, you will have as an option to elevate and shoot across the ball under the spotted ball as an option. I myself and probably all the players on this site have at one time or another shot this shot and it's really not a difficult hit. And if you notice the 2ball and 9ball will be positioned to where they both will leave with a decent hit.

But the main point is not trying to figure out the perfect shot for the situation, when there aren't any that I can see. It's trying to determine what our options are and choosing the right one for whomever is shooting.

Maybe like you say that by banking the 7ball you will leave your opponent in a easy situation to play off of, however, by banking the 5ball you may leave your opponent in a wonderful situation to play off of as well. So maybe it's the "lesser of two evils" that we are confronted with. Which was my point, all along.

Bill Incardona
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:12 PM
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The 7ball bank as an option would be an option for those who don't want to gamble on banking the 5ball and risking the game on a "low percentage" shot, considering how the balls are positioned. Imo there are many players that would not be comfortable on gambling with banking the 5ball and leaving their opponent in an enviable situation if they should happen not to make the bank. And when I say a "low percentage " shot, it's low percentage considering the consequence one pays if the bank is missed.

In regard to the leave after shooting the 7ball. There are a few places that the cue ball can end up, and not all of those positions would leave your opponent with a simple "shoot and stick" option as a return shot. But even if you could shoot the 2ball into the pocket and freeze the cue ball to the cushion, you will have as an option to elevate and shoot across the ball under the spotted ball as an option. I myself and probably all the players on this site have at one time or another shot this shot and it's really not a difficult hit. (Yes it is, because even if you execute it, if you hit it too hard the ball or balls will return back to that end of the table; and unless you are somehow able to draw the cue ball from a frozen position, the cue ball will remain in the middle of the table, 2 diamonds up from the foot rail.) And if you notice the 2ball and 9ball will be positioned to where they both will leave with a decent hit.

But the main point is not trying to figure out the perfect shot for the situation, when there aren't any that I can see. It's trying to determine what our options are and choosing the right one for whomever is shooting.

Maybe like you say that by banking the 7ball you will leave your opponent in a easy situation to play off of, however, by banking the 5ball you may leave your opponent in a wonderful situation to play off of as well. So maybe it's the "lesser of two evils" that we are confronted with. Which was my point, all along.

Bill Incardona
Let me be clearer. Firstly, the safety off of the 7 ball is certainly not a game losing shot. I just dont rate it as strong. I dont rate shooting the 5 ball as very strong either, but to me. it is the best of a difficult situation. I always believed if you are going to get in trouble anyway, you might as well shoot at something, especially if you are close to the object ball.

The difference between the 2 shots in this situation is not much ( nothing like the difference between the shot Efren chose in another diagram (Reyes, Pinegar) when he knocked off the corner ball and tried to freeze the cue ball from a bad position). However, call it reality or paranoia, it seems every bank solution I put up gets opposed by you, shutting off any further discourse that might perhaps lead somewhere --I might have been heading for! I am a very cagey fellow and sometimes I might be putting out little feelers and clues about things that I will slowly release later as the discourse develops.

Beard
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Last edited by fred bentivegna; 10-27-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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