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Old 10-23-2005, 02:41 PM
I1PL I1PL is offline
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Default Handicapped 1-pocket tournaments???

Minor breakthrough in developing a system to handicap 1-pocket tournaments. The best news is the only data needed is the ball-score of each game!!! Of course, the most important ingredient of a perfectly cooked system is the determination of each player's INITIAL handicap level. A good starting point is essential in any Mathematical system, especially one that deals with the factor we all know exists but wouldn't dare try to quantify...the LUCK factor! Anyway...if you've read this far, I got your attention; so please give me your thoughts. Thanks, fg
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Old 10-23-2005, 06:20 PM
OldHasBeen OldHasBeen is offline
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Default Sanbagging Potential Is Still There!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I1PL
Minor breakthrough in developing a system to handicap 1-pocket tournaments. The best news is the only data needed is the ball-score of each game!!! Of course, the most important ingredient of a perfectly cooked system is the determination of each player's INITIAL handicap level. A good starting point is essential in any Mathematical system, especially one that deals with the factor we all know exists but wouldn't dare try to quantify...the LUCK factor! Anyway...if you've read this far, I got your attention; so please give me your thoughts. Thanks, fg
It would be very easy for a good player to let his (not so good) opponent get 4,5 or 6 balls instead of winning 8 to 0.

TY BUT GL
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2005, 07:48 PM
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hemicudas hemicudas is offline
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Default Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldHasBeen
It would be very easy for a good player to let his (not so good) opponent get 4,5 or 6 balls instead of winning 8 to 0.

TY BUT GL
I have said it many times, one pocket is the only game a top player can stall with a good shortstop. You couldn't be more right, Tom.
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Old 10-24-2005, 04:11 PM
I1PL I1PL is offline
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Default

Good point...thanks for the issue. It's resolution is this: when you win a game in my handicap system, your rating goes up. Granted, it may go more up the bigger the margin of victory, but I'm hoping the fact that it definitely goes up will help to deter sandbagging; I'm a realist and know that sandbagging will be attempted. But figuring out a system for deterring it should be easy in the future, should such a system be required. I have a feeling that there will be less sandbagging in 1-pocket than there is in 9-ball.

Quick definitions: in my system a player's rating is comprised of two factors: 1) his/her average, and 2) his/her I factor. For example, one of the nine levels of 1-pocket players that I have derived is Amateur. Another level is Junior. An Amateur has a Rating of .733, the Junior is a .555. The Amateur's Rating is the sum of his/her Average (.600) and I factor (.133); similarly for the Junior (.466 + .088). According to my Matchup Chart, in a Race to 2 format, the Junior would receive the following spot: 9-7 and lag for 1st break. In my system the Winner breaks!

Thanks again,
fg

Last edited by I1PL; 10-24-2005 at 04:16 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:14 PM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Appropriate handicaps for tournaments might be different than for leagues. For leagues that I have been involved with, they have regular adjustments based on win/loss, and I like the general principle of having your system move in the direction of equalizing each player's chance to win as the season progresses.

I think tournaments are a little different -- the main purpose of handicapping for tournaments is to encourage more entries. IMO, tournament handicaps do not need to 'equalize' the opponents (which is very difficult anyway), but rather just give a bit of a leg up for weaker players so they feel like they have a chance to win any given game.

The best tournament formats IMO group players of approximiately equal level together -- so a minimum of spotting is necessary in the early rounds. In the late rounds, spots might be unavoidable, because eventually winners would have to meet.

Of course, you still have to have a method either by art or science to classify the players in the beginning! And of course you still have some people who will be motivated to sandbag.

Then there is the issue that not every One pocket player wants to be accurately pegged as to their speed Although being accurately pegged is certainly better than being over-rated! I remember visiting Chris' Billiards in Chicago at one time maybe 1995 or so, and there was a list of players along with their handicap ranking posted on the wall -- must have been from some kind tourney or league. I noticed when I went back a year or so later the list was down, never to return apparently. I would imagine guys farther up the food chain didn't like that list potentially knocking their action...
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  #6  
Old 10-25-2005, 12:42 AM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve
I remember visiting Chris' Billiards in Chicago at one time maybe 1995 or so, and there was a list of players along with their handicap ranking posted on the wall -- must have been from some kind tourney or league. I noticed when I went back a year or so later the list was down, never to return apparently. I would imagine guys farther up the food chain didn't like that list potentially knocking their action...

Hey Steve, It was me that configured all of those 1 Pocket handicaps on that list that you saw at Chris's - It included all of the 1 Pocket players at Chris's. I ran a couple of handicapped 1 Pocket tournaments there at that time. We drew about 32 players for each tournament. Now here's a funny story about the first tournament.....

.....Ok, I handicapped myself as well as everybody else....To insure that there was no doubts that I gave myself the correct/fair handicap, I gave myself the exact same handicap number that I gave to four other guys who I play even when we gamble, and who I've been see-sawing with for years playing even...Then I asked everyone if my handicap was right and they said yes....Well, I finished 1st in the tournament and everybody whined and screamed and cried and said it wasn't fair that I handicapped myself - Even though they all agreed it was fair before the tournament started !!!......Oh well, that's pool players for you ^_^
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:45 AM
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hemicudas hemicudas is offline
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Default One Pocket Ghost

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve
Appropriate handicaps for tournaments might be different than for leagues. For leagues that I have been involved with, they have regular adjustments based on win/loss, and I like the general principle of having your system move in the direction of equalizing each player's chance to win as the season progresses.

I think tournaments are a little different -- the main purpose of handicapping for tournaments is to encourage more entries. IMO, tournament handicaps do not need to 'equalize' the opponents (which is very difficult anyway), but rather just give a bit of a leg up for weaker players so they feel like they have a chance to win any given game.

The best tournament formats IMO group players of approximiately equal level together -- so a minimum of spotting is necessary in the early rounds. In the late rounds, spots might be unavoidable, because eventually winners would have to meet.

Of course, you still have to have a method either by art or science to classify the players in the beginning! And of course you still have some people who will be motivated to sandbag.

Then there is the issue that not every One pocket player wants to be accurately pegged as to their speed Although being accurately pegged is certainly better than being over-rated! I remember visiting Chris' Billiards in Chicago at one time maybe 1995 or so, and there was a list of players along with their handicap ranking posted on the wall -- must have been from some kind tourney or league. I noticed when I went back a year or so later the list was down, never to return apparently. I would imagine guys farther up the food chain didn't like that list potentially knocking their action...
This has to be one for the One Pocket Ghost to explain, Steve. Chris' Billiards is his "Haunt".
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2005, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemicudas
This has to be one for the One Pocket Ghost to explain, Steve. Chris' Billiards is his "Haunt".

Hey Bill, I just did !
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2005, 01:26 AM
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hemicudas hemicudas is offline
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Default I know

I know Ghost. Check your email, LOL
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2005, 08:09 AM
100andout 100andout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost
Hey Steve, It was me that configured all of those 1 Pocket handicaps on that list that you saw at Chris's - It included all of the 1 Pocket players at Chris's. I ran a couple of handicapped 1 Pocket tournaments there at that time. We drew about 32 players for each tournament. Now here's a funny story about the first tournament.....

.....Ok, I handicapped myself as well as everybody else....To insure that there was no doubts that I gave myself the correct/fair handicap, I gave myself the exact same handicap number that I gave to four other guys who I play even when we gamble, and who I've been see-sawing with for years playing even...Then I asked everyone if my handicap was right and they said yes....Well, I finished 1st in the tournament and everybody whined and screamed and cried and said it wasn't fair that I handicapped myself - Even though they all agreed it was fair before the tournament started !!!......Oh well, that's pool players for you ^_^

They can't cry, you made sure it was fair in the begining!!...you just played well.....

I had a room owner call back to the room I worked in to get my speed for a handicap 9-ball. They put me equal to the best player in the field, thinking that was fair, but not knowing I gave the best player in the field the 7. First match, yep, I draw the # 1 guy, and he starts crying, I can't play him even, boofrigginhoo.....so I said to the TD, how bout I spot the break too, knowing he loses the cuebal 99% of the time?...no problems....I hit deadpop, and he kept smashing the rack open and scratching for me....Man that was funny seeing him steam....I won, took out my gas money and entry, and had the TD split the rest with players 2 thru 4.....I wanted to be able to go back thier being a "good guy".........Gerry
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