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  #21  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:53 PM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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I agree with the points/assessments that my friend, (and frequent sparring partner) Freddie the beard made in his first post to this thread, including the excellent point that the ball layout can dictate whether you are ahead or behind in the game, even though the ball score may be even...I would like to tweak that a bit though - it's all about degrees....I would say that the balls would have to lie very heavily against you for you to be considered losing the game with a 0 to 0 ball score. Let me give a baseball analogy: If the score is 0 to 0 in the second inning and let's say there's a man on first with one out, or men on first and second with 2 outs, I wouldn't say that you're losing/behind in that game....If however, the score is 0 to 0 in the bottom of the ninth inning and bases are loaded with no outs, you are SERIOUSLY behind in that game.

As for whether you should shoot the 50/50 shot....as Wayne said, there are many factors involved ( ball layout, amount of the bet, who you're playing, etc. ) too many factors to give an absolute answer to that question.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:29 PM
One pocket Smitty One pocket Smitty is offline
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Default 50/50

I have read some of Grady's works and he says if the defensive shot is as hard as the offensive shot go for the offensive shot. However, after playing 1 pocket for some time, now I am able to see alot more defensive moves than before. But I still if face with a real hard defensive shot will go for my pocket to at least move something my way to make them think about the consequences of a missed shot. And above all else leave them long.---Smitty
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:50 PM
Wayne Wayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One pocket Smitty
I have read some of Grady's works and he says if the defensive shot is as hard as the offensive shot go for the offensive shot. However, after playing 1 pocket for some time, now I am able to see alot more defensive moves than before. But I still if face with a real hard defensive shot will go for my pocket to at least move something my way to make them think about the consequences of a missed shot. And above all else leave them long.---Smitty
Here is one, how do you play this if you are faced with it after your opponents break. I first saw Tang Hoa in this type of situation and he successfully executed his shot and I have had it come up for me twice since then and both times I executed successfully. How do you play it?

START(
%AN7O5%BI6T4%CH3P3%DM8L9%EL7O8%FI2R5%GK1P1%HM4N6%IG6Y9%JK6M3
%KG6W6%LI4M9%MD5W2%ND5Z3%OG9K5%PQ3F3
)END

Wayne
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:08 AM
Wayne Wayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donovan
Deep down if the shot is 50/50 wouldn't you just bare down, lock it in, and turn it in to a shot you have to make as if your life depended on it?

I suppose that this kind of confidence and ability to force you through that emotional mumbo jumbo, turns the shot into something you truly think you can't miss. But isn't that the point of deciding to shoot it? We never shoot a shot thinking we are going to miss it, do we? (unless it is an intentional miss of course.)
You sound like a true 9 ball player. On a 50/50 shot as a one-pocket player when you are playing for decent stakes you are thinking about what is going to happen if you miss especially if you haven't shot at your hole in a long time. Now a 9 ball player will be firing away full of confidence that he will make it. After he learns one-pocket and has been relieved of a considerable amount of money because of his cowboy attitude then he will be looking for the safety.

I remember John Schmidt (before he really learned one-pocket) playing Cliff Joyner at Hardtimes getting a 3 ball spot I believe. Joyner kept leaving Schmidt in positions where top one-pocket players would be ducking and John not knowing this just kept firing at his hole and everything kept going in and he won the match easily with Joyner just shaking his head. Now I would bet John wouldn't shoot a lot of those shots.

I was playing the Russian (Stalev) some one-pocket getting 9-7 and if you have seen the Russian shoot you would know he can fire anything in from anywhere. I tied him up so badly (and relieved him of $1000) that by the time he finally had a clear shot at his hole (probably an 80% shot in 9 ball) he was afraid to pull the trigger. I remember the same thing happening to Luat when I was in a partner game against him and Efren. Luat not having a chance to free stroke for a long period was missing shots that were probably 98% shots for him in 9 ball. Efren finally pulled up after watching Luat struggle for several games.

You get broken down all the time in one-pocket and a 50% shot doesn't look very inviting especially if your opponent keeps running out every time you miss.

Wayne
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:04 AM
Donovan Donovan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
You sound like a true 9 ball player.
Funny how some people have to label you without really knowing anything about you. However, it is OK to call me names, but geesh, could you be more harsh?

Actually, the point of this was, if all things being equal, do you duck or shoot? But if you just talk about the shot then it takes the whole thing in a different direction. Obviously if the safe is an easier shot with a higher percentage of success, then safe is the way to go. But the exercise was what if they were equally tough?

I was hoping we would have opposing views and see how people view this. So besides the condescending stuff, thanks for your thoughts.
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2006, 02:43 AM
yobagua yobagua is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donovan
Deep down if the shot is 50/50 wouldn't you just bare down, lock it in, and turn it in to a shot you have to make as if your life depended on it?

I suppose that this kind of confidence and ability to force you through that emotional mumbo jumbo, turns the shot into something you truly think you can't miss. But isn't that the point of deciding to shoot it? We never shoot a shot thinking we are going to miss it, do we? (unless it is an intentional miss of course.)
I think it is a response Wayne is making to your somewhat naive statement that we have to make a "shot as if our life depended on it". Well thats not really true. I never think Ill die if I miss. I know I might suffer but things dont get that hairy.

Also with the "We never shoot a shot thinking we are going to miss it, do we?". Well thats what one hole is all about. You put your opponent in a situation that he might miss. And as the opponent you are constantly thinking about what the odds are of missing. The pressure is always so immense sometimes that the odds that you might miss is always riding over your head. It takes a real experienced player to negate that. Even though Ive seen great players like Buddy Hall and Efren miss the simplest shot because of the "sell out " factor. You've got to be honest about that pressure. To say Im not going to miss is not enough.

The great thing about Efren is he is able to shoot at his hole and lock you up at the same time. Ive seen it time and time again when good pro players would put a basic move on Efren leaving one ball by their pocket and leave Efren hooked behind the stack. He will not only play a good safe but maybe kick 2 rails put 3 balls by his hole and leave you stuck behind that ball near your hole. I saw it a lot at the Derby. Corey Deuel had a ball half a diamond by his hole and Efren would continue to put Corey frozen on the wrong side of that ball. Corey never shot at his hole for maybe 6 innings. By then Efren had all the balls around his hole

I apologize if you think that I am being rude to you. That is not my intent. But if you look at the list of guys who say Ill shoot at it in a minute. You dont find themselves beating top one pocket players.
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  #27  
Old 02-17-2006, 08:07 AM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
Here is one, how do you play this if you are faced with it after your opponents break. I first saw Tang Hoa in this type of situation and he successfully executed his shot and I have had it come up for me twice since then and both times I executed successfully. How do you play it?

START(
%AN7O5%BI6T4%CH3P3%DM8L9%EL7O8%FI2R5%GK1P1%HM4N6%IG6Y9%JK6M3
%KG6W6%LI4M9%MD5W2%ND5Z3%OG9K5%PQ3F3
)END

Wayne
Are you talking about the carom shot -- shooting between the 12 and 15 (hitting the 12 first) to make the 15?

START(
%AN7O5%BI6T4%CH3P3%DM8L9%EL7O8%FI2R5%GK1P1%HM4N6%IG6Y9%JK6M3
%KG6W6%LI4M9%MD5W2%ND5Z3%OG9K5%PQ3F3%WD3O5%XG5L8%[D7E1%\G5J2
%]F1X2%^D0P2%eA7`6%_H9M0%`J3L4%aP3G0
)END
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  #28  
Old 02-17-2006, 10:38 AM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
Here is one, how do you play this if you are faced with it after your opponents break. I first saw Tang Hoa in this type of situation and he successfully executed his shot and I have had it come up for me twice since then and both times I executed successfully. How do you play it?
Wayne
With 4 balls in front of the opponent's hole, the player is in a world of hurt. I'd probably bank the 1-ball cross corner, and try to freeze whitey to the 8-ball, or between the 8 and 4. A long kick to the headrail would be too treacherous. However, I'm anxious to see the expert move... This has turned into an excellent thread.

Doc
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:29 PM
OldHasBeen OldHasBeen is offline
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Default Bank the one ball.

I would just bank the one ball pretty hard and freeze the cue ball to the top of the stack. Might either get lucky OR at least get some balls around your hole.

TY & GL, OHB
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:58 PM
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One Pocket Ghost One Pocket Ghost is offline
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Well, an aggressive/advanced shot in this spot ( and aggression is not a bad thing when you're in trouble ) would be to shoot the 1 ball hard with outside english into the 9 ball, giving you a decent chance to dislodge/move the entire four ball cluster, at the same time the cue ball after striking the 1 ball will billiard 3 or 4 rails around the table having it end up in the area of the opponents pocket for a great defensive shot....This might be Wayne's shot.
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