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  #1  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:40 AM
iusedtoberich iusedtoberich is offline
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Default Ability to clock a player

How good does a player have to be in order to rate a better player?

For example, can a C player determine who is stronger between two A players? Can a B player determine who is stronger between two Open players?

I hear all the time C and B players (which I belong to) say such and such is the best in the state, etc. Does this class of player really have the ability and skill to make that determination?
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Old 03-03-2006, 10:46 AM
Donovan Donovan is offline
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Many people will probably disagree with me, but I personally think it depends on whether or not they have been anywhere or actually have seen anyone outside their own area. And by this I mean all over.

When I was younger I used to think I knew that kind of stuff, until I started traveling around. Then I realized people I thought were really tough were merely mediocre and I was really horrible. LOL

Also, there is the second factor of what they really know about the game they are evaluating. Some B/C players study the heck out of a game and even if they have no touch they can figure out what a good shot is and what a good move looks like. Some don't have a clue.

The third factor for me is, can they tell what they would need to win a game? They have to know that when they get lose on a shot that they can usually make 2 or 3 balls in 1P and they have to know that the player they are playing usually sells out 3 or 4 big shots a game. If they can figure out how many times they sell out and how many the other guy usually runs, then maybe they would at least have an idea of where they have a chance. Now they have to ask for a bigger spot that that to win. This is a mundane and vague example, but the average player is not likely to do this. They are just going to guess at it.

If a B or C player can understand and experience these three things, then I would say they would have at least an educated guess. And that is what we are talking about.

BTW, some backers can figure this out and they don't even pick up a cue. That is proof that this is possible. JMO
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2006, 01:55 PM
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NH Steve NH Steve is offline
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One guy who is pretty good at clocking players these days is the fellow seated between Rickie Byrd & Marshall Carpenter. I believe he's from Pittsburgh, PA -- but obviously he must get around a bit because Pittsburgh isn't exactly the crossroads of USA pool hustling . Not to knock the Steel City, it's just that it is a little more off the beaten path than, for example Chicago. I don't believe I have ever seen him play -- but he sure is a sharp observor of action.

I believe his name is Steve, and I heard someone call him "ten-to-two" because of the slight natural lean to his head...
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Old 03-03-2006, 05:10 PM
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jrhendy jrhendy is offline
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Default Clocking And Comparing Players

It can get pretty complicated when you are trying to compare different players speed. I might beat a guy you can beat and you might rob me. Playing styles come into it. Some one pocket players can't stand to get shot at & their game may go downhill against a ball runner. Some aggressive players can't make a ball if you keep them in the stack and never leave them air to shoot at. If the style of player you are matched up with makes you change your method of playing, your speed is probably going down. Top players can adjust to any style and that is why they are top players. When you are playing someone who consistently comes up with shots you don't know or can't execute, your game is going to suffer. The mind game of one pocket is at least as important as the skill game. Banking is probaly my weak suit, and I play a fair game of one pocket. I can out duck most of them and usually get to the shot first, but don't take advantage of it like a top player, and that usually pumps the other player up and improves their game. It will be interesting see see some other opinions on this. Good thread.
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Old 03-03-2006, 05:10 PM
BackPocket9Ball BackPocket9Ball is offline
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NH Steve,

Stevie can play. And Pittsburgh does have a firm pool (as well as one pocket tradition) -- Marvin Henderson, Jimmy Marino, Gary "Bushwacker" Nolan, Gerry Slivka, and to a slightly lesser degree, Sy Brown, Paul Mottey, and up-and-comer Shane Hennen. And of course, Stevie!

But you're right. Stevie can clock players' speeds with the best of them.
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:40 PM
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gulfportdoc gulfportdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPocket9Ball
NH Steve,

Stevie can play. And Pittsburgh does have a firm pool (as well as one pocket tradition) -- Marvin Henderson, Jimmy Marino, Gary "Bushwacker" Nolan, Gerry Slivka, and to a slightly lesser degree, Sy Brown, Paul Mottey, and up-and-comer Shane Hennen. And of course, Stevie!

But you're right. Stevie can clock players' speeds with the best of them.
And don't forget Pittsburgh Jack, although I think he left Pgh in '62. I'm from Pittsburgh myself, but I left in the 60's.

I didn't realize Steve played. Thought he was just a side-bettor, perhaps backer. I had a nice conversation with him in gulfport during Grady's Gulf Coast Classic. The guy really gets around! He might turn up anywhere. So he's either independently weathy, or he can earn a living betting-- something that even few players can do...

Doc
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Old 03-04-2006, 02:02 AM
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hemicudas hemicudas is offline
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Default Pittsburgh, Mike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfportdoc
And don't forget Pittsburgh Jack, although I think he left Pgh in '62. I'm from Pittsburgh myself, but I left in the 60's.

I didn't realize Steve played. Thought he was just a side-bettor, perhaps backer. I had a nice conversation with him in gulfport during Grady's Gulf Coast Classic. The guy really gets around! He might turn up anywhere. So he's either independently weathy, or he can earn a living betting-- something that even few players can do...

Doc
Someone refresh my memory. Late 79 or early 80 Bill Stack and I run into a big guy who lived above a bar in Michawaka(sp), IN they called Pittsburgh Mike. He was about 6'4" and about 250Lbs. We had been steared to this spot looking for another guy. We beat our guy but the owner goes up stairs and wakes this Pittsburgh Mike up. He comes down stairs with a cup of coffee in his hand and proceeds to send us packing in short time. This was obviously a bar table. I talked to a few Chicago players who said they knew the guy but never knew his last name. I don't even know if he was actually from Pittsburgh. This guy sound familiar to any of you other, older than dirt, scuffs?
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Old 03-04-2006, 02:11 PM
OldHasBeen OldHasBeen is offline
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Default I got to know him a little in Detroit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemicudas
Someone refresh my memory. Late 79 or early 80 Bill Stack and I run into a big guy who lived above a bar in Michawaka(sp), IN they called Pittsburgh Mike. He was about 6'4" and about 250Lbs. We had been steared to this spot looking for another guy. We beat our guy but the owner goes up stairs and wakes this Pittsburgh Mike up. He comes down stairs with a cup of coffee in his hand and proceeds to send us packing in short time. This was obviously a bar table. I talked to a few Chicago players who said they knew the guy but never knew his last name. I don't even know if he was actually from Pittsburgh. This guy sound familiar to any of you other, older than dirt, scuffs?
He spent quite a bit of time in Detroit when the action started each year. Good OP player and pretty good overall. Pretty gruff type fellow to get along with and I would want to know the whole story before making a side bet. Originally from Pittsburgh but I think he spent a lot of time in Philly. Was pretty close to Red.
Another good Pittsburgh Mike was from Pittsburgh KS. We played quite a bit in Okla City. He offered me either the break OR 7 ball on a tough GC. He had quite a great reputation to uphold and I was just a salesman who liked to play pool. It was like weather he wanted die from a knife or gun. I naturally took the break and the cash. Good and nice player though and about my age.

TY & GL, OHB
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Old 03-04-2006, 07:11 PM
OldHasBeen OldHasBeen is offline
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Default On second thought........

As entitled to us "Old Farts" - My Oldtimers may be acting up again. I may have been thinking of Pittsburgh John and not Pittsburgh Mike.

Thanks, OHB
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Old 03-04-2006, 07:17 PM
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hemicudas hemicudas is offline
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Default Got to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldHasBeen
As entitled to us "Old Farts" - My Oldtimers may be acting up again. I may have been thinking of Pittsburgh John and not Pittsburgh Mike.

Thanks, OHB
There has always got to be one smart ass everywhere that remembers the right name, OHB, LOL. OK,,,,,,,,,,,,, it was JOHN. What do they say these days, My Bad. The only Mike I knew, other than Bandy in the Chi. area was Round Lake Mike and we beat him. Oh, and Mike Parker.
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Last edited by hemicudas; 03-04-2006 at 07:21 PM.
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